Best remote trainer?

[LouCastle]

Originally Posted by DogGone

While most of what he says is dead on; some of what he says is inaccurate and misconstrued.

I'll disagree. LOL.

Originally Posted by DogGone

Under his myths section; he claims that modern E. collars offer up to 50,000 random frequencies; I think that is in itself a misconception and myth.

While you're correct that there are not 50,000 frequencies in use, the point is that there are about 50,000 different combinations of codes that Ecollar transmitters use to communicate with their receivers. Early versions were about as sophisticated as garage door openers, with only a few different codes. In fact, in the not too distant past, when you purchased an Ecollar they asked where you trained and who you trained with. They checked their lists to see what frequencies others in your group were using to prevent people from having the same frequency as others that they trained with.

It was not at all unusual to have to send the unit back to have the frequency changed. If you want to argue that the word "frequency" is not the precisely proper word, that's fine. But I don't think it's necessary to communicate to the average pet owner (whatever that means) all the facts on the binary code system It's minutiae and in the grand scheme, unimportant. The point is that it's virtually unheard of for one Ecollar to interfere with another.

Originally Posted by DogGone

Anyway the 50,000 number that he came up with I don’t think is the number of frequencies; I think it is the number of binary codes that are commonly used. So there may be like 50,000 patterns of frequency hopping, and 50,000 command codes.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. But I really don't think that you've furthered knowledge of any significance here. But to be more accurate I've changed the website so that it now says "codes" rather than "frequency." Thanks for helping improve the website.

Originally Posted by DogGone

If you put a receiver collar in close proximity to an extremely strong source of electromagnetic radiation it could be possible to overwhelm the primary circuits and cause a bogus stimulation command or even fry the radio collar. So something like a high-powered CB, police/fire/air radio/radar or short wave radio antenna mounted a few inches or a few feet away from a radio collar could possibly inadvertently cause an unintentional stimulation.

Can you cite any incidents of this occurring or is this just theory? Police officers regularly use Ecollars worn on their belt or sitting in the front seat a few feet from their "police radio antennae" without incident. I've been at command posts for SAR and police incidents alike, standing a few feet from the radio antennae and also noticed nothing untoward.

Originally Posted by DogGone

There are some scenarios that have a lots of RF/EM radiation. Using an E collar on an aircraft carrier that is on maneuvers with active radar and radio transmissions would probably be asking for trouble.

All of you who do your training on the flight deck of aircraft carriers please take heed. ROFL.

Originally Posted by DogGone

There also might be some problems in a SAR scenario where there is a lot of electromagnetic radiation from high-powered transmitters and from the area being painted and scanned by radar. It also may be unwise to use an E-collar in close proximity of an airport, its radar or transmission towers; radio station towers; TV station towers, under high tension power lines

Many training fields are in the areas that you mention. I've trained on many of them myself and not had the slightest issue. Perhaps what we're seeing is the difference between theory, that allows that such things might happen and reality, where they don't. I prefer to deal in the latter.

Originally Posted by DogGone

etc… if you could hold up a fluorescent light bulb and if it lights up without being connected to wires; it is probably not a wise idea to use an e collar in that area. You might want to try carrying an AM or FM radio with you and if you get a lot of interference you probably shouldn’t operate the e collar in that area, while there is so much EM radiation. You probably should not operate an E- collar in close proximity of radiating x-ray, CAT scan or MRI equipment.

Again, do you have any verifiable incidents to tell us of, or is this more theory?

[LouCastle]

Originally Posted by DogGone

Another point that I’m on partial disagreement with is the claim that there is no health risks involved with using E- collar.

Please show us even ONE scientific study that showed any health risks associated with the use of Ecollars. Surely you have at least one that supports this argument?!

Originally Posted by DogGone

I am a big fan of E-collars; however they should be used wisely and for the most part on healthy dogs. Dogs that are susceptible to seizures or have spinal cord or brain damage should probably not be exposed to electronic/shock stimulation like e-collar. An electronic shock can have the same effect as a strobe light to someone that is susceptible to seizures, it could trigger a seizure event.

Again, is this your theory or do you have an incident to back it up? Ecollar manufacturers have taken to including warnings of this nature but it's because of product liability, not based on any actual occurrences. Unless of course you can show us one. New hair dryers bear the warning, DO NOT USE IN THE SHOWER! I think this is much the same as what you're talking about.

Originally Posted by DogGone

I have a spinal cord injury. Because of my spinal injury with nerve damage I have started to have some occasional myoclonic seizures. I used to use a tens unit that uses electronic stimulation that allegedly is supposed to reduce pain; I found it was largely ineffective at reducing pain but regretfully it increased the severity and frequency of my myoclonic seizures.

I'd caution anyone against accepting your account of this. It's human nature when something occurs to look at the last thing that preceded it. But just because two things occur near one another in time hardly means that one caused the other. Correlation is not causation. Do you have any scientific studies to back up this speculation?

Originally Posted by DogGone

Regretfully many people, including many people in the medical community dismiss seizures as harmless and or insignificant; however if there is a pre-existing medical condition like broken bones that are fusing it can easily re-fractures the bones or shift vertebrae and discs to increase pain and/or paralysis.

Same question. If what you claim is true how is it that "many people ... in the medical community dismiss seizures as harmless and or insignificant? ..."


HERE'S something that is on my website. It comes from someone who had an extremely fear aggressive dog that I "fixed" with an Ecollar. "I should also say that in addition to being a SAR dog handler in my free time, I'm a veterinary student and am simultaneously working on a PhD. in Neurobiology. If I were AT ALL concerned about negative neurological or behavioral consequences of Lou's methods, or his Ecollars, I would not use it on my own dog."

Originally Posted by DogGone

Another thing I recommend with the E-collar is to be very careful and consistent about how tight the collar is. To tight could reduce movement, circulation and possibly cause pain. To loose and the stimulation level can be very inconsistent. There has been several times that I had the collar too loose and the dog was not getting a stimulation because the contacts were not contacting the skin so I increased the level of stimulation to a level that was unnecessarily painful. A snug collar that doesn’t allow sloppiness will give the most consistent stimulation. Believe it or not a collar that is too loose can actually increase pain.

Detailed instructions for putting the Ecollar on a dog can be found on my website HERE

Originally Posted by DogGone

Veterans of using tens units should know what I’m talking about. A well attached electrode on a tens unit should give consistent stimulation. If you take a tens unit and attach the electrodes so the stimulation is reasonable; then try slowly pulling off the electrodes; the amount of stimulation will increase until it feels like it’s burning and/or painful.

I've had hundreds of hours of TENS. This comparison is about as close to meaningless as it gets. TENS electrodes are sticky pads that are about one square inch. Ecollar contact points have about 1/8" of stainless steel in contact with the dogs skin. When you slowly remove the TENS pad, you "concentrate" the stim in a smaller and smaller area. The same amount of current will flow through a smaller and smaller area, "focusing" it on a smaller and smaller area of skin. While theoretically this could happen with an Ecollar it's just about impossible for it to happen in reality. Either the contact point will be against the dog's skin or it won't. I'd say that it's virtually impossible for this "slowly peeling" to occur in real life with Ecollar contact points.

Originally Posted by DogGone

With a e-collar having the electrodes placed firmly against the skin will help limit the voltage that is produced by the small transformer. Without the resistance of the body to resist the transformer the voltage can climb to the point that it might arc over to the skin which would be more painful and inconsistent. So if you have your collar too loose sometimes your dog may feel nothing when the stimulation is engaged and other times it could be significantly painful.

I've been using Ecollars for well over two decades. I have friends who have been using them since their invention, over forty years ago. NEVER have any of us found this to be true. AGAIN we see the difference between real world and theory. I'm pretty sure that no Ecollar has enough power to cause arcing. I've played around with them, trying to get them to do so but never have been successful.

Originally Posted by DogGone

There are risks with any type of training system or collar. Any tool can be used for good or bad and can be dangerous in the wrong hands.

There are FAR MORE dangers inherent in leashes and plain buckle collar and/or choke chains that with an Ecollar.