German Shepherds Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

Digestive Enzymes & Probiotics

12K views 49 replies 17 participants last post by  Castlemaid 
#1 ·
Could the members recommend specific name brand of digestive enzymes and probiotics to use for a 7 y/o GS who has bad allergies? Can it be purchased at PetSmart? I am in a hurry to get something tomorrow or by the weekend at the latest which is why I did not do a search on this. Thank you.
 
#4 ·
What exactly was his allergies caused from? I recently bought some at petsmart, the brand was 21st century probiotics it was cheap & quick for the time being. I went to another local pet store and bought this new stuff called Daisy's optimum health and this stuff is pricey but amazing. I see a difference already and it's only been a week. ( my boy was sick and wasn't eating as much) after giving him antibiotics I wanted to start this as soon as he was finished. His stools had stayed consistently runny with & after antibiotics. I started giving him this and right away his next stools were back to normal, he bulked up again and has a very nice coat that came through. PS. I was told to make sure to keep the bottle refrigerated after opening as you must know it contains live organisms and when they come with contact of heat, air or water they start to die and it warns you on the bottle but the petsmart one I bought doesn't mention to keep it refrigerated so i'm not sure which is best but I know I swear by this stuff. Goodluck with your dog :) sincerely, Christine


Sent from Petguide.com Free App
 
#6 ·
Could the members recommend specific name brand of digestive enzymes and probiotics to use for a 7 y/o GS who has bad allergies? Can it be purchased at PetSmart? I am in a hurry to get something tomorrow or by the weekend at the latest which is why I did not do a search on this. Thank you.
Is this for Tosca?

I don't know about enzymes/probiotics that will help bad allergies. Recently a vet gave me this supplement and it seemed to help Nikki, it's made by Standard Process: https://www.standardprocess.com/Products/Standard-Process/Antronex

Michaela
 
#8 ·
Yes, this is for Tosca. My husband is convinced that digestive enzymes and probiotics will help with her allergies. I Googled this topic and the information I found seems to back up everything he has said. It can't hurt. lol. I do not want to do injections so I will try everything holistically first.

Michaela, interesting to see another Jagenstadt dog on the forum. Tosca was from the J litter.
 
#9 ·
I feed my shepherd raw organic goat milk for enzymes. She likes it. Sometimes I mix in Carmspack's Sunday Sundae (natural digestive enzyme supplement) and it's worked really good. I use it for foster dogs that gets the runs and it seems to fix it pretty quick. A plus is all the dogs I tried to feed it to loves it.

You can read about it here:
SUNDAY SUNDAE | CARMSPACK.com

Purchase in the States here:
Sunday Sundae Nutritional Supplement

A thread on this site here:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...-feedsentials-question-carmen-re-staph-4.html

I've tried the injections before and after seeing it only temporarily suppressed the allergy symptoms for a few days and requiring ongoing shots plus all the potential long term effects on the organs that I went the natural route. What did it was changing the food to raw.
 
#11 ·
Michaela, interesting to see another Jagenstadt dog on the forum. Tosca was from the J litter.
:) Nikki was from the O litter...what are the odds that they both have allergies!

I hope that the enzymes/probiotics work for her but it didn't make any difference for my two (my first GSD "Heidi" had severe allergies). When Nikki start to show symptoms I didn't waste any time getting her seen by our dermatologist. Hyposensitization can take 12-18 months but it worked for both of mine. Allergies are a pain that's for sure :(
 
#15 · (Edited by Moderator)
I am not good at explaining how the body works, so please Google digestive enzymes and probiotics with allergy in the subject line. This link helps explain everything very well. SUNDAY SUNDAE | CARMSPACK.com I cannot endorse it because I have not used the product, but the information is great and looks promising for my dog.

I have done everything I can to help my dog from switching dog food, allergy testing, and herbal supplements. Tosca is currently on spirulina and krill oil. These are helping with the itching and licking of the paws. I have been using Braggs ACV internally and externally. I have soaked my dog's paws in Epsom salts to help the itching. *** Removed by ADMIN *** She has been losing hair, has a itchy and wrinkled muzzle, swollen rear paws, loss of appetite, loose stools, has had secondary skin as well as ear infections.

At this point, this seems to be the only logical thing left to treat. You have to treat the inside which takes care of the immune system. I believe all the problems we are going through stem from the puppy shots. That is another story for another time.

The benedryl does not work for us. The vet says we can try a prescripted antihistamine which is stronger. I tried Atopica and had side affects. I do not want to go with allergy injections. There is no guarantee it will work and it's $200 just to start.

Our family believes in holistic treatments. We rarely get anything worse than a head cold when we get sick. We attribute that to using aloe vera and echinicea.

Tosca will have to live with the allergies, but I want to find a way to make her comfortable as well.
 
#16 ·
Dhau, can you go into the puppy shots? I also believe vaccinations cause allergies however I was hoping that once I stopped vaccinating they'd go away.
Are you saying that's not true?

My dog god every single freaking vaccine my vet recommended (they're not my vet anymore). He's 9 months old, has allergies and I'm not giving him another shot.

He's on raw and seems to get better in one place but then itches in another.

So your dog is 7 years old. Are you saying you never gave him another vaccine after the puppy shots and his allergies didn't go away?


Sent from Petguide.com Free App
 
#19 ·
Dhau, can you go into the puppy shots? I also believe vaccinations cause allergies however I was hoping that once I stopped vaccinating they'd go away.
Are you saying that's not true?

My dog god every single freaking vaccine my vet recommended (they're not my vet anymore). He's 9 months old, has allergies and I'm not giving him another shot.

He's on raw and seems to get better in one place but then itches in another.

So your dog is 7 years old. Are you saying you never gave him another vaccine after the puppy shots and his allergies didn't go away?


Sent from Petguide.com Free App
Let me share what I have experienced. I took in 3 puppies from a neglected household. I fostered them for about 1 week and one of them came down with parvo. I took the dogs for a walk near my home and one of them came down with parvo quickly after receiving puppy shots. It has been a while since this happened so I don't remember every detail. I do know that if a dog has a compromised immune system, you do not give shots. I have read you do not give multiple shots at one time. You are better off giving each one separately. It may cost more but it's healthier for the dog.

Ever since this has happened I learned about a condition called vaccinosis (sp?) I also do not give my dog any vaccinations due to my dog's compromised immune system which I feel causes allergies. I am not very good at explaining all this stuff so please do research on this topic. It's very eye opening and controversial topic. How many shots have you had since you were a child? So why should a dog be vaccinated as often as the vets say to do so? The allergies my dog have are getting worse. I have never had hair loss on the rear paws, around the eyes or the muzzle until this year.

Benedryl does not work. The vet said we could try something stronger but will need a prescription. I do not want to pump her up with more benedryl because it's not solving the problem, just masking it. The vet said I could give her 3 tablets of benedryl. While doing so, she did not do anything more than lie around the house and sleep. I took her off the benedryl completely.

Every dog is different and reacts different depending on the allergy.
 
#17 ·
What food are you feeding? A lot of dogs have allergies to chicken. Try something simple. California naturals lamb/rice? Benadryl also helps. I used it on my lab. The vet can tell you dosage. It really helped my lab when she had an allergic reaction her entire face blew up gave her benAdryl and went away,,I'm sorry just read Benadryl doesn't work for her
 
#18 · (Edited)
I'm sorry you're having such issues. Duke itches like a beast too and has a sensitive stomach (haven't tested allergies or GI issues yet, been too focused on neuro and bone issues). He's ok on his food now -Acana Pacifica-, but we do supplement his diet to help his stomach out (pumpkin, and yogurt, and he's also on Nupro Original & Joint and Immunity), and he gets special baths for his skin (we have a tea tree oil leave in conditioner for allergies, works great. It's called Vet's Best and it's mainly for hotspots, but also works wonders for itchy skin and allergies). Along with his mild HD, and possible DM/nerve issues (and some other things)..... it can be a bit rough on him. Our vet has been super helpful thankfully!

I don't have any suggestions that haven't already been mentioned, and even with 2 dogs with these issues (the other also has SIBO flare ups) I'm still learning. Just wanted to say I feel your pain with this, and to wish you two some luck...

Hope you get everything figured out for Tosca soon!

*Forgot to add... Zira was on Forta Flora often within her first year (Major SIBO issues) and it really worked for her. We got it right at Petsmart from the Banfield vets office there (no office visit or anything needed). It wasn't all that expensive and it was easy to use. Zira liked the taste and she responded really well to that.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Denise, I know how frustrating allergies are, I do know a veterinarian that had success with acupuncture. Maybe that would be worth checking into for Tosca?

Maybe it'll make you feel better if I list Nikki's very long list of health issues and by the way she is also allergic to fleas. Maybe that explains why she came off the plane scratching like crazy.

Here it is:

Very itchy from day one and also had brown gunk in her ears which turned out to be 3 different yeast organisms.

Giardia
Mild case of parvo @ 9 weeks
Juvenile demodicosis
Atopy
Food intolerance
EPI
IBD
SIBO
B12 Deficiency
Anal gland issues

Just like "Dukes" mom we are very lucky to have some excellent veterinarians that are helping me take care of Nikki. Especially our dermatologist and Nikki's IMS @ Texas A&M. And I can't forget "Monica Segal" who is in charge of her diet :)

Hang in there and hopefully you will find a treatment that works for Tosca :wub: I know how these issues drain you emotionally and financially!
 
#23 ·
I'd like to know the ratio of dogs that got their puppy shots to the ones that developed severe allergies. I'd assume it's a very small percentage.

Would you suggest not getting puppy shots and risking parvo? I'd rather take my chance with 3 parvo/distemper puppy shots, a booster, and titers for the rest of the dog's life.
 
#28 ·
When I moved to GA 14 years ago, I found a forum called Leerburg.com I think. This was many years ago so not sure about the name. Anyway, many members of the forum were advocates of feeding raw and no shots whatsoever. I have been so conditioned to believe that the vets know everything so I went ahead and did it too. When I got Tosca, a friend told me to go raw and no shots because her dog was very healthy. Now I wonder if things may have been different if I followed her advice. I am not a gambler so I didn't want to take the chance of my dog getting sick. Now look at me. lol.
 
#30 ·
When I moved to GA 14 years ago, I found a forum called Leerburg.com I think. This was many years ago so not sure about the name. Anyway, many members of the forum were advocates of feeding raw and no shots whatsoever. I have been so conditioned to believe that the vets know everything so I went ahead and did it too. When I got Tosca, a friend told me to go raw and no shots because her dog was very healthy. Now I wonder if things may have been different if I followed her advice. I am not a gambler so I didn't want to take the chance of my dog getting sick. Now look at me. lol.
I think you would have been in the same exact position you're in now.

Or maybe you'd be asking why you decided to listen to randoms on a message board and had to spend thousands of dollars in vet bills to nurse your 12 week old puppy back from parvo because you decided not to do any vaccinations. Then you'd have to deal with all of his allergy issues on top of that.

When it comes to vaccinations, I'll take Dr Dodds' (an expert in the field) advice long before some anonymous name on a leerburg message board.
 
#29 ·
ADMIN NOTE:

Dog owner/breeder disagreements are to be discussed in PRIVATE. The board is NOT a vehicle to air dirty laundry in public view. I cleaned up this thread and deleted some posts. Further finger pointing, name calling, petty arguing will make this thread disappear.

ADMIN
 
#34 ·
I believe it's based on genetics to start with. The problem is that it can't be proven because I do not think breeders stay in close contact with all the owners of their progeny for the life of the dogs for one reason or another. I know I have not with all the purebreds I have had. Another way to see if it's genetics is to compare siblings from a litter. Many times owners like to keep in touch with other owners of their littermates. I have tried with Tosca's because I find it interesting to see before and after pictures.

My previous breeder in CA would hold reunions of litter mates which was so nice so we could compare in person. We also took a group photo.
 
#35 · (Edited)
2012 Dr. Jean Dodds protocol

Canine Vaccination Protocol

9 - 10 Weeks Old: *Distemper + Parvovirus, MLV (e.g. Intervet Progard Puppy DPV, now renamed Nobivac DPV, when Merck and Intervet merged)

14 Weeks Old:Same as above

16 - 18 Weeks Old (optional):Same as above (optional)

20 weeks or older, if allowable by law:Rabies

1 Year Old:Distemper + Parvovirus,MLV (optional = titer)

1+ Years Old:*Rabies, killed 3-year product (give 3-4 weeks apart from distemper/parvovirus booster)Perform vaccine antibody titers for distemper and parvovirus every three years thereafter, or more often, if desired. Vaccinate for rabies virus according to the law, except where circumstances indicate that a written waiver needs to be obtained from the primary care veterinarian. *In that case, a rabies antibody titer can also be performed to accompany the waiver request. *

3rd booster is optional. Her personal preference was to skip as per her email to me.

This subject has been argued repeatedly on this forum.

I believe over vaccinating stresses the immune system thus allowing many problems to manifest.
 
#36 ·
A dog's system should be able to withstand a vaccine. If we are breeding these spun glass creatures who need enzymes to process food - FOOD, who can't tolerate a tiny bump in their system, who have myriad health issues, then something is wrong - in general, not just the dog on this thread. I see so many enzyme posts it blows my mind - survival should be the #1 thing an animal is suited for, and these animals are unable to do so without assistance in processing their meals. And not just old dogs....yikes.

I've had dogs/fosters vaccinated who I knew were probably already vaccinated - but there was no proof and it's required, see so many dogs through rescue vaccinated with absolutely no issues - they are not all GSDs - and they are also not all healthy when vaccinated, but they thrive. We don't, after getting them started, do yearly obviously, but I think that any animal so sensitive to a vaccine is not going to fare well with any other minor assault on their system and would like to see that studied - the general health and responses to insult of dogs with known/confirmed vaccine reactions. Because I think that may be the core similarity - something like low IgA or other indicators of a weak system, something genetic perhaps like Denise says, not the reaction to the vaccine itself.
 
#37 ·
What I find interesting is how many dogs of all breeds have allergies. Whenever I go to the vet, I visit with staff members, including the vet, about their pets and the majority of their dogs have allergies so they all commiserate with me. lol. Seriously, a study should be done as to why this is happening. Is it the water? The air that the dogs breath while carrying puppies? There has to be a common denominator!

Seriously, a dog allergic to Bermuda grass?
 
#38 ·
*** Removed by ADMIN - original post was deleted ***
I follow Dodd's protocol, both my vets (one for general care one for xrays) also follow Dodd's protocol. *** Removed by ADMIN - condescending and patronizing *** . Many Vet's do the same. I believe that much of the decline in the health of todays GSD's is directly related to years of over-vaccinating, terrible dog food and years of close line breeding. That is why I choose to keep vaccines to a minimum, feed grain-free kibble along with fresh meat and supplements and steer clear of close line breeding.
A dog's system should be able to withstand a vaccine. If we are breeding these spun glass creatures who need enzymes to process food - FOOD, who can't tolerate a tiny bump in their system, who have myriad health issues, then something is wrong
Agreed....something is terribly wrong.
This is a copy of new regulations that the new breed warden in Germany has put into effect. The German's who are supposedly the "Guardian's of the breed" are finally pulling their heads out of the sand and starting to address some of the health issues in the breed as they relate to "Flavor of the month dogs" and line breeding in general.

VA groups in the SV Bundessiegerzuchtschau and the direction of the breed

The improvement of the current situation in the breeding of the German Shepherd is not only the responsibility of the office of the club breed warden, but also the personal concern of the newly elected office-holder Lothar Quoll. For the duration of his tenure, he has five core themes defined, and the implementation has already begun.

1. Health / fitness of the German Shepherd
2. Return the size to standard size
3. Broadening the gene pool base and reducing line breeding
4. Promote the use efficiency
5. Control of breeding failures towards the "cookie cutter" type dog

These issues are closely interlinked with each other and must be coordinated. The desire to change is also reflected in different resolutions of the Federal Assembly in 2013 when it comes to increased requirements in the healthcare sector in order to obtain the highest genetic evaluations. The wellbeing of the breed also includes the widening of the blood base and, consequently, a reduction of inbreeding coefficient's. The results of the recent past have shown that despite almost similar or the same quality under the rating of "Excellent Select" (VA dogs), the selection of breeding dogs is often decided by the breeders according to the placement of the dogs within the VA groups. The resulting narrowing of gene pool is a detriment in contributing to the health of the German Shepherd breed.
Based on these considerations it has been decided by the SV-board that the VA placements in the adult classes (stock hair) for males and females in the Bundessiegerzuchtschau will be listed and introduced in the stadium in catalog number.

The main office of the SV
I have just returned from Germany (the Sieger Show) and while there I purchased a new male for breeding. He's a super dog in every respect and he is also free of Ursus, Quantum, Pakros, Esko and Quenn. These blood lines are the most popular and widely used West German Show lines not only in Germany but in every country where breeders follow "the German Scheme" of things. After owning GSD's for 50 years and breeding for about 25 years I have witnessed the steady decline in the breed in ALL areas, General Health (compromised immune systems), Longevity, Intelligence, Temperament, Character, Reproduction and Anatomy as it relates to Agility and Function. Even with a long and excellent back ground with the breed and very careful selection it is becoming harder and harder to breed healthy dogs, not a good sign for the future of the breed. I have made many "Breeder Friends" over the years and we talk regularly about the health in different blood lines and the breed in general and these problems unfortunately are not only in Show lines but Working lines also and regardless of what some breeders may admit publically there is no one immune to it, ALL GSD breeders are dealing with these issues.

I decided about a year ago that if I can not find the best representatives of the breed that will consistently produce what a German Shepherd should be then I will not continue to breed. I'm fortunate to have a great job that pays me well and I do not depend on the income of the sale of a puppy to support my family. My love of the breed and my reputation means more to me then any amount of money. There are many people out there that breed for a living, I often wonder how the increase in health issues will affect how they breed and do business. It's past the point of "Stacking the Deck" to produce great puppies, even with stacking the deck great results are getting harder and harder to achieve. A breeders knowledge of the breed is extremely important but when dealing with Mother Nature luck can also play a big role. You can only be lucky for so long but it will eventually catch up to you. It's very frustrating to watch the steady decline in the breed and know that there is very little you can do stop it. Hopefully the good healthy ones will far out-weigh the ones with problems .... Time will tell.
 
#39 · (Edited)
Denise: You answered your own question in your above quote *healthy genetics* is the answer ;)

Here is a website you may find interesting. Dr. Lewis took care of my Heidi for five years, she had severe allergies. Read this part all the way to the end! http://www.dermatologyforanimals.com/faq-06/

Jean: Excellent post.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top