German Shepherds Forum banner

Orijen's new ingredient's.

8K views 54 replies 23 participants last post by  stealle 
#1 ·
#7 ·
So here we ago again with Orijen bashing, same people, same knowledge level. The first FIFTEEN INGREDIENTS are meat or egg ingredient's, hardly fish by-products...

IMPORTANT Diet and Nutrition Section Info NO Tolerance Policy
There will be no tolerance for food threads that devolve into (or start with) bashing of foods, members, companies, etc. OF ANY BRAND, TYPE, INTERACTION. No questions, no comments, they will be locked as soon as they are seen, and warnings will be given if needed.

This section is important to members only if information is available without having to dig through all of this nonsense.

Jean
Admin

And saying this as a board member - you all should be embarrassed for your participation in these threads. I know I am when I see them, and especially understanding that people from anywhere on the Internet can find them and read them and see the level (low) of interaction on this forum.
 
#9 · (Edited)
See you also are bashing, also. I PERSONALLY CONTACTED AND SAW THE PRODUCT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. The supplier who calls it fish-by-product, then also states, they take, """the by-product""" and removes parts unfit FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION, they then make a fish PRODUCT. If only you people would research your facts to fullest you might get the real true answer to statements that are FALSE.... LOL, I have been there.........

But if you dig a little deeper, you would find that their is NO SUCH THING AS FISH BY-PRODUCTS.... See the FDA site for more AND TRUE information.

Meat by-products are what you are thinking and you are oh so wrong, confusing the fact that their is a fish-by-product.... The supplier is totally misusing the word....

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/ar/archive/apr07/fish0407.pdf
 
#10 · (Edited)
This is the article in the supplier's newsletter page 2 right column.

http://www.freshwaterfish.com/system/files/L2PNewsletter%20Winter%202011.pdf

Quote from the link:

We began working with Champion in 2005 when we
sent them samples of minced by-products for testing after
it was extracted from fish during the filleting process. Prior
to sending the product to Alberta, we had been paying to
have the waste trucked to a rendering facility in Winnipeg.
After the samples were tested by Champion, a product was
developed that met their high quality specifications.
This business brings in several hundred thousand dollars
in revenue for a product that previously cost us money to
dispose of – and we’re thrilled to be building on a relationship
that dates back more than five years.


I would think if they had human consumable mince it would go into human products, not pet products-and actually had been treated as trash before the relationship with Champion.

Don't get me wrong, I do not have an issue with dogs eating food that is not destined for human tables as dogs have been eating our waste since the relationship between dogs and humans began, and many people have had very good results with their food. I am not sure how the USDA applies in Canada-perhaps you can inform us.

Perhaps some supporting evidence would be nice. It is hard to take anything about a dog food company on faith from a person, about whom you know nothing.
 
#11 ·
Kudos to them in removing potatoes. I looked at all the Orijen and Acana products a few months ago in a search for patato free food. Every one of their products had potatoes in it, which I found frustrating. Stone rolled oats in the acana formulas was great, but there is always a potato of some sort lurking in the list. And with more people looking for low glycemic foods, it is difficult to find a holistic food with no potatoes.
 
#13 ·
what's great about oats being in dog food?

Kudos to them in removing potatoes. I looked at all the Orijen and Acana products a few months ago in a search for patato free food. Every one of their products had potatoes in it, which I found frustrating.

>>>> Stone rolled oats in the acana formulas was great,<<<<

but there is always a potato of some sort lurking in the list. And with more people looking for low glycemic foods, it is difficult to find a holistic food with no potatoes.
 
#15 ·
Culled potatoes with green skin can containe solanine which is a poison from the green parts of potatoes (leafs, stems, green skin).

The new "hot thing" in dog food is legumes and the argument is that they have a lower glycemic index than potatoes. The only catch is that glycemic index numbers are based on scientific studies of human digestion and we have salivariy amylases, chew our food, and are generally better equipped than dogs to utilize starch. This journal article (I would love to see others) seems to indicate that it really does not matter which source of starch is used as the extensive processing rather equalizes the canine glycemic response. Of course some (not all) grains contain glutens which create other problems and only a few grains and legumes contain "complete" protein equivalent to that of meat.

Glycemic and Insulinemic Responses after Ingestion of Commercial Foods in Healthy Dogs: Influence of Food Composition

Legumes have the added benefit of raising protein values without meat.
 
#20 ·
So what is your general opinion about lentils in food, then? I've seen some foods with that in them, wasn't really sure if they were adding it as a quality product, or as a way to reduce meat but still appear protein heavy.

Frustratingly enough, Rocket, who LOVED his new food and is finally starting to look good on it, has now taken to not eating it. In fact, when I put his breakfast in front of him the other night, he actually sniffed it, then pushed the bowl as far away from himself as possible--(he was laying down). Then, as if it STILL bugged him, he got up and moved across the rug. GRRRR.

We have ordered the fish formula (of the pioneer naturals) to see if that will spark his interest again. He is seriously too skinny I think, and for the amount of running and hiking he does with me, 1-2 cups a day isn't enough. You can EASILY feel every single rib just patting him on the side, let alone running your hand down it. :(
 
#16 ·
Potato's bring very little to the table as far as nutrients go. Do lintels? Not really. After discussing with Champion, why they removed potato's, they explained the large number of request they received to remove potato's, with something a little more heathy. I personally have no problem with potatos, rice or brown rice. Now in my dogs case, rice for some reason gives him eye goo.
 
#17 ·
Potato's bring very little to the table as far as nutrients go. Do lintels?
"Lintels" bring nothing to the food. A lintel is the support beam above a doorway. I think the word you are looking for is "lentils". Lentils are legumes which are high in protein. By removing the lower protein potatoes, and substituting the higher protein lentils, Champion is able to reduce the meat content without reducing the overall protein content. If the guaranteed analysis shows the same percentage of protein as the old formula, then the meat content has been reduced, and some of the meat has been replaced with lentils to keep the same level of protein.
 
#19 ·
Unfortunately, there is no 'official' information online about the new foods, or formula changes. There is an official page detailing the new freeze dried foods and treats line, but nothing official yet about changes to the normal kibbled foods. The new link on Orijen's homepage for the 'new' "Whole Prey" foods just goes to the old Product page that features all of the old formulas. All of the online pet food vendors that I have checked still have the old formulas available for sale as well.

I guess we'll just have to wait until Champion is ready to unveil the new foods and/or changes to the old formulas. I, for one, hope they don't change too much as my girl does great on the 6 Fish formula and I'm perfectly happy with things just as they are. I would like to give the freeze dried treats a try though, so I'm hoping those become available to retail sometime soon!
 
#21 · (Edited)
Personally, I don't have a strong opinion. Any kibble has to have carbs added to facilitate extrusion. My concerns with beans are that they must be thoroughly cooked to inactivate the phytates which impair mineral absorbtion and they also have trypsin inhibitors which can impair protein updake...but some of the grains can have gluten which is implicated in leaky gut syndrome and potatoes can be considered high glycemic (though is that true for dogs?) and can have solanine (if they are using the ones with green on the skin).

IOW pick your poison! I don't know. I am just another person digging to learn this stuff, too. It is on my path about learning more about human nutrition as well. My own preference for legumes is to sprout when possible.

To me, without knowing the batch formulas, we really can't know - can we?

I only know of ONE food manufacturer who freely told me their actual amount of protein that came from meat when I was looking and put it in writing.
 
#23 ·
I soak my kibble. Not that I have an issue with palatability as my dogs wolf down anything I feed them and want more, but it seemed to intuitively make sense and my own dog food manufacturer recommends it. (Nature's Logic).
 
#25 ·
WOW you DO have a picky dog! He's like my cats, there's only a few foods in the entire market they'll eat and Orijen is one of the one's they won't touch. It's weird all three of them are picky about the same foods.

Only way I could get Ollie to eat Orijen was by topping it with Merrick's canned food, he went nuts over granny's pot pie and the wingaling flavor. Not bashing Orijen though, I fed it for a long time it's just tough to keep feeding it when one of your dogs refuses it even soaked in warm water.
 
#26 ·
I'm hesitant to top his food with anything, because when we go backpacking, I'm NOT carrying any extra stuff, lol. (Or letting him, either).

He ate the Orijen almost better than this, although for the first 30lb bag and half of this one, he ate it like he'd never eaten dog food before. So strange.
 
#27 ·
Orijen does not have the new formula listed as of yet and is the reason I posted the ingredient list in another post. Champion is "considering" keeping both formulas, so it is just a guess if they well or won't.

Just a little meat.
I just bought this bag of Senior Whole Prey by Orijen and here is the list

Boneless chicken, chicken meal, chicken liver, whole herring, turkey meal, boneless turkey, turkey liver, whole eggs, boneless walleye, whole salmon, chicken heart, chicken cartilage, herring meal, salmon meal, pea fibre, chicken liver oil

red lentils, green peas, green lentils, sun cured alfalfa, yams, chickpeas, pumpkin, butternut squash, spinach greens, carrots, Red Delicious apples, Bartlett pears, cranberries, blueberries, kelp, licorice root, and so on with some minor minor ingredients.

I was reading then typing these and I just got tired of typing while trying to read those tiny words. The talk is that a lot of people wanted a product without potatoes.

Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Lentils, mature seeds, cooked, boiled, without salt

This list is off a different site..

Nutritional value per 100 g (3.5 oz) Energy 1,477 kJ (353 kcal) Carbohydrates 60 g - Sugars 2 g - Dietary fiber 31 g Fat 1 g Protein 26 g

Thiamine (vit. B1) 0.87 mg (76%) Folate (vit. B9) 479 μg (120%) Calcium 56 mg (6%) Iron 7.54 mg (58%) Magnesium 122 mg (34%) Phosphorus 451 mg (64%) Potassium 955 mg (20%) Sodium 6 mg (0%) Zinc 4.78 mg (50%)






A lintel is the support beam above a doorway. Sometimes called a door header, structural header, support beam and onward. Sure wish as I was as awesome as you, in spelling. It must make you a happy person to criticize such an important grammar mistake as someone hitting the wrong key. GOOD JOB.
 
#32 ·
Does anyone really think feeding a $100 bag of dog food vs a $50 bag of dog food is really gonna make a difference? Unless its guaranteed to add 5 years to my dogs life I will stick with a quality food that's a bit cheaper.. Just my opinion :)


Sent from Petguide.com Free App
From what I have gathered, most people want to feed the food that their dog does best on but sometimes cost must be considered.

I have one who noticeably improves on Orijen and one that has no change. I rotate foods. With the one that does best on Orijen I feed it every other bag because right now I can.
 
#34 ·
So today I bought (under duress, I might add, LOL) a 15lb bag of the new Orijen 6-fish; Rocket has kind of stopped eating the whitefish formula of the Pioneer Naturals. A true 30lb bag of the PN is $44.98, and a 28lb bag of the Orijen will be $81.99. YOW. He did scarf up the mixed serving at dinner tonight. In fact, he did his "circles" so fast I think he basically just jumped and his feet only hit the ground once.

I considered the Acana Pacifica, but my concerns with the field beans, the "whole apples" and the "whole pears" (the seeds)....I just couldn't do it. I will watch his coat again to see if it improves. I'm just not convinced, that he looks as good on the PN as he did on the Orijen. Plus, I suspect he is a dog that needs variety, as about 2/3rds of the way through the second bag of each of the PN, he's lost interest. It's weird. I've never really topped his food, and he ate only Orijen LBP then Adult for the first 13+ months; it's not like I've changed his food all the time.

I HATE DOG FOOD SHOPPING.
 
#35 ·
81$ for 28 pounds, you could feed the dog chuck roast, ground chuck, whole chicken, and fish for that kind of dough. It really solidifies my belief that dog food is a racket and the higher priced dog foods are just as much of a racket if not more.

Before spending 81$ for one day's worth of dog food (in my case), I would buy a freezer and buy some freezer beef, and buy a hunting license and kill a deer and cube it, and raise a flock of chickens, and put up a rabbit hutch and start pumping out bunnies.
 
#36 ·
My freezer is full of local, hormone free grass fed beef for the 5 of us. ;)

Seriously, Selzer, if I didn't have three teenagers and a job I'm getting ready to go back to that keeps me there for 60 hours a week, I'd likely do raw. I really would. But I need the convienence of kibble, especially in the spring.
 
#37 ·
I would love to do RAW but my husband is totally against it and will not budge on the matter and I'm tired of arguing with him about it, since I can't work right now and he pays for everything there's not much I can do.

We're trying Acana Pacifica right now(they were on Orijen before) but my Chi mix is having all kinds of allergy problems so I'm probably going back to Honest Kitchen, had amazing results with that food.
 
#55 ·
What kibble were you feeding that contained these? Or, were you just feeding peas and lentils for some reason?

Ash is on the bag ... You have to look under the foreign language guaranteed analysis' to find it. On the French language listing it is 'cendres brutes', for example. From what I've seen so far, which is actually most of the formulas, ash content has gone up by about 1% from what it was in the old formulas.
Thanks!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top