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-   -   Kibble Feeders: Who DOESN'T feed grain-free? Why? (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/diet-nutrition/204738-kibble-feeders-who-doesnt-feed-grain-free-why.html)

Rua 01-17-2013 05:13 AM

Kibble Feeders: Who DOESN'T feed grain-free? Why?
 
Most people, myself included, have seen the great benefits of feeding grain free kibble. But I know there are people out there that for whatever reason choose not to.

For those of you who don't already know, I feed RAW and kibble to my dogs for financial reasons. (Otherwise, I'd go full on RAW.) The dogs evening kibble meal is currently a grain free kibble, but I am seriously considering switching to a brand called Lukullus. This kibble has brown rice in it.

I'm curious to see how many of you kibble feeders out there have opted for a kibble that ISN'T grain free and why you chose to do so.

Also, here are the ingredients of Lukullus. Any thoughts?

Beef meal (28%), brown rice, trout meal (6%), cold-pressed rapeseed oil, algae, alfalfa, beets, rice germs, herbs, pears, apples, egg yolk powder, caraway, linseed oil, carob, silica, kieselgur, yucca schidigera, bilberries, trace elements, vitamins

llombardo 01-17-2013 07:19 AM

I don't fee grain free. I was going to switch, but why would I if the dogs are healthy, like the food, have a nice coat, and poop is good. They are doing well with what they eat and I doubt I'll change it. We are all comfortable:)

Shade 01-17-2013 07:30 AM

I feed Fromm, Jazzy eats the grain free varieties of their Four Star Line. Delgado eats their LBP for now which unfortunately isn't grain free but he will be switched

jocoyn 01-17-2013 07:36 AM

The only benefit I see to grain free kibble is the reduction of gluten and that the proteins in the grains can be allergens (as can proteins from any source-grains, meats, peas - even potatoes). Gluten can also cause problems with nutrient absorbtion.

There are gluten free grains. (amaranth, brown rice, buckwheat,corn, millet, quinoa, sorghum, teff). Peas and beans are gluten free but the proteins bring allergy possibilities there as well. Corn is genetically modified (GMO) in such large numbers and has usually been sprayed with herbicides during its growth--virtually all corn has been "infected" with the genes from GMO corn, even organic corn, which by definition cannot be GMO. [same thing is also true for canola and soybeans and all these GMO producs are fed in large quantity to cattle, swine and poultry so unless you are feeding grass fed, grain free animals or organic meats you are getting the GMOs in the back door]. Brown rice has its own problems at that grown in the SE US is high in arsenic due to years and years of treating cotton grops with arsenic insecticides. It is more susceptible than other crops because the wet growing conditions facilitate uptake.

Carbohydrates are needed for the extrusion process and to reduce cost.
They are not necessary for a dogs nutrition and are to a dog's detriment if in excess.
Dogs do not have salivary amylase, only pancreatic amylase.

Potatoes, particularly white, are no better than many grains as they have a high glycemic index and, if low quality culls, can have solanine (green) on them which is toxic. Sweet potatoes are better.

The ingredients in dog food are ranked by weight but that can be misleading. Meat has much much more water than meat meals and may be lower in protein than the next on the list.

You can look at the label and one food may be 50% meat meal, then 48% grain while the next is 60% meat meal and 25% grain. You can't tell by looking. Those are not real number, just an example of how different they can be. Also ingredients can be splt so they are lower in the list but are still high in the food.

Liesje 01-17-2013 07:56 AM

I don't feed grain-free. My dogs do very well on California Natural Lamb and Rice so I have no reason to switch. They are healthy, good weight, shiny coats, no allergies, small/firm poops. I've tried a wide variety of other kibbles (some supposedly better) and always go back. I last tried Fromm because it is cheaper yet made in the USA but they all itched like crazy and their poop was horrid (HUGE and disgustingly stinky). They like the Cal Nat kibble and it's very easy for me to store large amounts and travel with. I occasionally supplement with raw venison, beef marrow bones, or chicken breast. They also get fish oil capsules and coconut oil though I'm not sure either have made any difference (but it doesn't hurt to add).

Franksmom 01-17-2013 08:27 AM

I tried grain free (Earthborne lamb based) with my dogs, 1 gained weight even when I adjusted for the calories, 1 lost weight and I had to feed more, and the last 1 was the straw that made me go back to a grain based food Frank had severe diarrhea on it.
After taking Frank to the vet several times and clearing any medical reason for the diarrhea, I noticed that all I had to do was add rice to his food and it stopped.
I switched all 3 back to a good food with rice in it and all 3 are doing Great, Frank's poop has never been better.

shepherdmom 01-17-2013 09:30 AM

I finally found a dog food that my dogs like and do well on. Why would I switch just because it says grain free?

Emoore 01-17-2013 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shepherdmom (Post 2756818)
I finally found a dog food that my dogs like and do well on. Why would I switch just because it says grain free?

This exactly. I tried it, but I haven't seen the much-touted benefits of grain-free. I'm glad you have, but let's try not to judge the one's that haven't.

Rua 01-17-2013 10:10 AM

I do like the grain free kibbles and my dogs have done well on them in the past, but right now, the one they are on is causing really really really bad gas issues with them both. The stench could kill a donkey. :eek:

Also there is the cost involved. For me, a bag of Orijen costs 100 euro. That translates to about $133. For ONE bag that's 13.5kg (29lb). That's a lot of money for me, especially with two dogs. I've never used Orijen because of that reason, but instead have used TOTW in the past (which I can't use right now because the calcium is too high for the puppy, and I'd prefer that both dogs eat the same kibble.) and Purizon (which has low calcium but is causing the gas issues).

TWO 15kg (33lb) bags of Lukullus is only 100 euro.

I'm all for giving your dog the best and all, but sometimes I feel like I can get unbalanced in this regard and end up spending more on food and getting nice stuff for them than I do for myself and my family.:rolleyes:

Which is why I'm looking to switch to something slightly cheaper but still good.

Rua 01-17-2013 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franksmom (Post 2756490)
I tried grain free (Earthborne lamb based) with my dogs, 1 gained weight even when I adjusted for the calories, 1 lost weight and I had to feed more, and the last 1 was the straw that made me go back to a grain based food Frank had severe diarrhea on it.
After taking Frank to the vet several times and clearing any medical reason for the diarrhea, I noticed that all I had to do was add rice to his food and it stopped.
I switched all 3 back to a good food with rice in it and all 3 are doing Great, Frank's poop has never been better.

This is another issue I'm having with the grainfree...

For some reason, Juno (who is a very very picky eater and skinny girl) can eat MOUNTAINS of Purizon and not gain a single ounce. I'd like her to gain a little weight because I've always found her to be a little too lean.

She gets a 1lb Raw meal in the morning, but in the evening, she could easily pack away 3 full cups of kibble and a stuffed Kong if I let her. And she still isn't gaining anything. AND she acts hungry afterwards, which is unlike her. So I'm wondering if adding rice to her diet would help.


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