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Old 01-07-2013, 10:04 PM   #11 (permalink)
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To be blunt, I think it's stupid. There are good foods with animal fats besides just fish oil, good foods out there with corn in it (I don't view corn as any worse than any other grain, or worse than foods packed full of potatoes and peas to become "grain free"), not all by-products are bad; things like hearts, liver, kidneys, gizzards, tripe, ect are very healthy "by-products", it also deducts points for beef and lamb yet gives points for flaxseed, barley, oats, sunflower oil, fruits and veggies. That makes NO sense to me.

My dogs diet would rate roughly a 36 or an F....I feed prey model raw. Wow! Lower than Alpo! Maybe I should ditch the different animal fats, "by-products", lamb and beef I feed and switch to feeding my dogs a ton of grains, fruits, veggies and high O6 oils to get them extra points.

Comparing this to those biased rating sites, I'd rather point someone to the biased rating sites for help finding a food.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The Whole Dog Journal had an issue all about dog food (how it's made,
ingredients, the plants it's made in, how to read labels, etc.
UGH, THE WHOLE DOG FOOD JOURNAL. Move up to dog food project difference is night and day. In blue are a ton of great articles.

The Dog Food Project - Ingredients to avoid
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
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If you did not know

Like meatmeal and blood meal, plasma proteins are by-product produced from animal waste collected from abbatoirs. Spray-dried porcine plasma (SDPP) is derived from pigs blood, and is processed at high temperatures for a short period of time. The process allows the beneficial components of the plasma to remain intake whilst sterilising the protein meal. Other plasma products on the market include ovine (sheep) and bovine (cow) plasma.

Hey Ken this is in total respect because I know youknow your stuff when it comes to dog food.
Thanks, and trust me, I know that you are very knowledgable about the subject and the industry as well. I'm not a big fan of plasma as an ingredient either, but there are some nutritional benefits to it.

As far as chicken meal, and other meat meal ... I know you've done quite a bit of research and that there are some poor quality meals being used, but usually you can tell the quality by ash content. If there is a large quantity of meal ingredient and the food still maintains low ash values then chances are the quality of the meal used is good.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:58 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I will disagree all day long on this. In house manufacturing should be given a huge nod over any out sourced manufactured food. I am certainly not sold on any of those foods. Natures Logic ingredient is below and I do not like seeing how much Millet, Yeast Culture and Pumpkin Seed their is in the product and I am not a Montmorillonite Clay fan. This is only one of a hand full of dog foods Tony could not eat. This food contains just a ton of bone and millet. Why Almonds??? Nuts in general are not good for dogs. Spray Dried Porcine Plasma?? Dried Tomato? Dried Apple? Some real controversial ingredients and some I did not list..

INGREDIENTS: Chicken Meal, Millet, Chicken Fat, Pumpkin Seed, Yeast Culture, Spray Dried Chicken Liver, Dried Egg Product, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Montmorillonite Clay, Dried Kelp, Cheese Powder, Spray Dried Porcine Plasma, Dried Tomato, Almonds, Dried Chicory Root, Dried Carrot, Dried Apple, White Fish Meal, Egg Shell Meal, Dried Pumpkin, Dried Apricot, Dried Blueberry, Dried Spinach, Dried Broccoli, Dried Cranberry, Parsley, Dried Artichoke, Rosemary, Mixed Tocopherols, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Bifidium Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Coagulans Fermentation Product, Dried Pineapple Extract, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Extract, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Trichoderma Longibrachtium Fermentation Extract
Conversely, this is the food I have been feeding for more than the past 6 months after getting rave reviews from a number of other people with GSDs. The testimonials on that site are incredible and, for the first time in YEARS, my senior had a normal blood panel after being on this food for six months. He had the runs and vomited a food that you preach as the gospel. One of the prophets you point to has this food on her "10 best foods list". My other dog is thriving on it as well.
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:12 AM   #15 (permalink)
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@SS-GSD - Very good points there. I did wonder to myself why beef and lamb weren't "good" when some would feed that raw. And Ive heard it said a million times that animal-based omega 3's are a much better source than plant ones like flaxseed.

I've been doing a ton of research as far as foods are concerned... mostly because I feel like I owe it to my senior dog. It's nice to get some feedback from others and what their sources tell them is good.

So if y'all could rewrite the grading scale, how would you do it?


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Old 01-08-2013, 01:49 AM   #16 (permalink)
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The only way to rate a dog food is by your dogs out put (poop), ability to maintain a healthy weight, clear or goopy eyes, clean or yeasty ears, bad or lack of smell, dull or shiny coat, ect. You really can't judge a food by it's label because at the end of the day it comes down to how well your dog does on the food, not what the label reads. The label can be pleasing to read but if your dog is having pudding poops, gas, goopy eyes, yeasty ears and a dull coat then is it really worth a pretty label or to feed something with a "5 star" rating by a human dentist? Some can handle really rich kibbles, others have to eat Pedigree to stay healthy. It may seem backwards but some dogs simply can't tolerate anything "better" and no rating site or grading scale will change that. That said, I believe in feeding the best that you can afford but the 5 star, 'A' rating food will be the one your dog does best on.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:41 AM   #17 (permalink)
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@SS-GSD - Very good points there. I did wonder to myself why beef and lamb weren't "good" when some would feed that raw. And Ive heard it said a million times that animal-based omega 3's are a much better source than plant ones like flaxseed.[/url][/color]
Grass fed stock has a much better fat distribution than grain fed -- it is not natural for cattle and sheep to feast on corn and oats.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:41 AM   #18 (permalink)
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The only way to rate a dog food is by your dogs out put (poop), ability to maintain a healthy weight, clear or goopy eyes, clean or yeasty ears, bad or lack of smell, dull or shiny coat, ect. You really can't judge a food by it's label because at the end of the day it comes down to how well your dog does on the food, not what the label reads. The label can be pleasing to read but if your dog is having pudding poops, gas, goopy eyes, yeasty ears and a dull coat then is it really worth a pretty label or to feed something with a "5 star" rating by a human dentist? Some can handle really rich kibbles, others have to eat Pedigree to stay healthy. It may seem backwards but some dogs simply can't tolerate anything "better" and no rating site or grading scale will change that. That said, I believe in feeding the best that you can afford but the 5 star, 'A' rating food will be the one your dog does best on.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:05 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I think you also need to educate yourself on the ingredients and avoid those you find as questionable based on your research. I discounted canola oil after much research, but many people would consider it to be a superior vegetable oil. I have a dog who cannot tolerate flax. I don't have an issue with corn other than the fact that it is most assuredly GMO corn which has been sprayed extensively with herbicides. GMO corn is so prevalent that even organic corn is contaminated. I have an issue with GMO anything--though it is very hard to find chickens fed a GMO free diet, even if you can find antibiotic free (all poultry is hormone free)..it is possible to find feeds with grass fed livestock and venison.

Any kibble is going to have some form of carbohydrates added. some grains with gluten can induce allergy issues. Other grains less so. potatoes are high glycemic (for people, there is no glycemic index defined for dogs and they do digest differently with no salivary amylases and no chewing)..peas and beans are low glycemic but have the potential to bring other problems. The carbs are there so they can make pellets.

I know hardly any "experts" on dog feeds who make their proclamations who actually have any kind of background or training in nutrition and who have even a rudimentary understanding of biochemistry. It is fine when they struggle along with the rest of us and learn and share what they can do not assume they have some special knowledge.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:57 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I know hardly any "experts" on dog feeds who make their proclamations who actually have any kind of background or training in nutrition and who have even a rudimentary understanding of biochemistry. It is fine when they struggle along with the rest of us and learn and share what they can do not assume they have some special knowledge.
Yeah. In my research, I've seen a lot of "experts" that base their experience on a handful of dogs. Of course, every dog is an individual and you'd be hard-pressed to find a blanket food that fits all dogs in general. I've tried to limit my research to nutritionists and veterinarians. I'm even considering contacting the Mississippi State Vet school to see about a consultation. I've heard some vet school students will do it for a nominal fee with the guidance of a well-versed instructor.



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