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Old 12-16-2012, 09:51 AM   #11 (permalink)
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To clarify on the ingredients Anthony posted - that appears to be the additive not the main food.

Brocolli does seem to be very high on the list for that product but a LOT of manufacturers add trace amount of brocolli their foods, including Fromm - in very low levels.

I did switch from the Fromm proiduct line later to avoid flaxseed for Grim and now Beau is switched too but I thought the Fromm promoted nice slow healthy growth. It has a 5:1 ratio of Omega 3 to Omega 6 which is good as I understand.

I mainly felt the overall amount of protein and fat in the Fromm were lower than I like and switched over to a higher protein, higher fat food with barely enough carbs (millet) to hold the kibbles together.

Newer food is 38% not 23% protein. All from hormone free/antibiotic free chicken and grass fed other sources. Of course it is more expensive. I noted brocolli is on the list on my food as well but VERY far down the list like on the Fromm.

I do have sunflower oil in my house - it is my preferred for any higher temp sauteeing because of the high smoke point but that is about it. Not really as something we would add to any food directly though. Carmen what is different about the ground sunflower seed you add to feed-sentials and the added sunflower oil?
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:02 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jocoyn View Post
To clarify on the ingredients Anthony posted - that appears to be the additive not the main food.

Brocolli does seem to be very high on the list for that product but a LOT of manufacturers add trace amount of brocolli their foods, including Fromm - in very low levels.

I did switch from the Fromm proiduct line later to avoid flaxseed for Grim and now Beau is switched too but I thought the Fromm promoted nice slow healthy growth. It has a 5:1 ratio of Omega 3 to Omega 6 which is good as I understand.

I mainly felt the overall amount of protein and fat in the Fromm were lower than I like and switched over to a higher protein, higher fat food with barely enough carbs (millet) to hold the kibbles together.

Newer food is 38% not 23% protein. All from hormone free/antibiotic free chicken and grass fed other sources. Of course it is more expensive. I noted brocolli is on the list on my food as well but VERY far down the list like on the Fromm.

I do have sunflower oil in my house - it is my preferred for any higher temp sauteeing because of the high smoke point but that is about it. Not really as something we would add to any food directly though. Carmen what is different about the ground sunflower seed you add to feed-sentials and the added sunflower oil?
Just curious about what would influence your decision to make a switch?
The obvious are the numbers (protein / fat ratio), but are there any physical or notable differences in your dogs?

What food did you switch to? (you can PM me), not to start another best food vs better food thread.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:14 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Anthony sunflower oil -- Check it out . Sunflower oil is high in omega 6 , which is too available , and PRO inflammatory.
Still there should not be so much that your hands are slick with oil? I am not crazy about broccoli being there because of the isothiocyanate compound in broccoli and many cruciferous vegetables being a toxic , liver enzyme inhibiting substance which in small amounts will accumulate damage (over long term) or in larger quantities can be toxic - this as per recommendation by Amercian Vet Med Assoc and the Canadian equivalent CVMA .
If you choose to use this product I would counteract the balance of omega 6 with an oil that is higher in omega 3 -- not coconut oil which is omega 3/ and 6 absent .
A better route would have been to give her whatever food you choose , add your own meat to improve the amino acid / protein profile and add your own oil -- high in omega 3.
Carmen, I'm dealing with a very finicky eater. No matter what I give her, her interest would basically last about 3 weeks. I can't even make her a fresh beef stew, and keep her interest long enough.
So apparently, she likes this topping... for now. I guess I'm basically saying that I'm not too concerned about long term negative effects, because there's an excellent chance she won't be eating this food much longer.
OTOH, it's a constant challenge for me to keep her eating healthy.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:20 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Yes that was not my goal.

Two things influenced my decision. I am convinced over years of having a dog who could just about eat rocks, have coat issues any time he ate a food with flax. Flax seems to work well with a lot of dogs but not with him. So I wanted to standardize instead of having 4 bags of food in my house at all times. (the open bag and the next bag). If I had to do different I would but why if I don't have to?

The other thing with Beau being a young adult male going into his "bulking" phase, and beng outside mose of the day during the winter. I felt he needed more protein and more fat to start building muscle. I truly believe based on observation that a working dog does better when protein levels go above 30% ....

I had a lot of angst going over to it but I am getting ready to update my thread on that food shortly.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:27 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Anthony, she's picky because you run out and get something new to stick on her food.
If you just had fed her the same kibble without making stew and such to put on there, would she eat it eventually?
GSDs are notoriously picky eaters. I remember getting Yaeger from the pound some 10yrs. ago and he barely ate.
I didn't know of this board, if it existed, so I asked a breeder friend. I was getting down on the floor and handfeeding him.
She said to quit doing that, he'd eventually eat, and he did.
We didn't resort to putting things on his food to get him to eat.

Once a dog has had that stuff put on it's food, and the dog knows you're going to toss something on there, there's no end to the "picky" behavior.

IMO, unless you're feeding Ol' Roy or something, you can rest assured you're feeding a high quality food she or he will eventually eat.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:44 AM   #16 (permalink)
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She's gone as much as three days without eating.
I've tried the same topping, then she'd typically go at least four to six skipped meals. Then try something new, and she eats.
Of course, you need to keep in mind how I feel about my dog, so running out and enticing her should be expected

Since I'm guilty of humanizing her ,I felt that I wouldn't feed my family the same food either.



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Old 12-16-2012, 11:51 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Just want to add. ....
The answer is probably getting her into a raw diet.

I have no reason to believe she wouldn't eat a slab of beef and all that other stuff.


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Old 12-16-2012, 11:59 AM   #18 (permalink)
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She's gone as much as three days without eating.
Well just FYI, we (and dogs) can last 3 weeks without eating, but yes, the rest of your post is entirely true, so I'm sure you won't test that theory!
But I bet, on Day 4, she'd have eaten

I missed it...does she have food down (dry kibble) 24/7?
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:29 PM   #19 (permalink)
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She's gone as much as three days without eating.
That's actually okay. Dogs' wild ancestors commonly go the better part of a week without eating; the feast/famine cycle is in the dog's genes and it's not harmful for them to go a few days without eating (as long as they are healthy).

I bet that if you stopped indulging her, she would stop being so picky. As long as she's a good weight, I wouldn't worry about it--I've never known a healthy dog to starve itself to death.

Cats, on the other hand, actually can get toxic from not eating--but only if they are overweight. Once the cat's body starts using its fat stores, there is a chemical byproduct released from fat combustion that is toxic and can make a cat very sick if he loses weight too quickly.

But with dogs, especially big dogs, there is little to worry about. Dogs are naturally gourmands who will eat anything that is remotely edible (and some stuff that isn't). I firmly believe that picky eaters are made, not born--I've never had a picky dog, as I've never taught my dogs that if they hold out, they'll get better food. In fact, most of my dogs have been absolute piggies!

When I first got my Akbash Dog, he was 3 years old and a good bit overweight. The lady I got him from complained that he had no food drive, and she couldn't even find a treat that he liked.

Well, the problem wasn't a lack of food drive--the problem was one of too MUCH food. As soon as I brought him home, I put him on a diet. I was able to slim him down to a lean 130 pounds--yes, you read that right--and not only did that dog have food drive, he had ridiculous, insane food drive. He would constantly break into the chicken coop to steal eggs and chicken feed, and would gorge himself on the malted barley we feed to the livestock, even though it wasn't digestible for him at all.

In fact, he was actually rather food-aggressive (as are many livestock guardian breeds) and we had to feed him well away from any other animals. I could take anything out of his mouth, but if another dog (or even a goat or chicken) was nearby while he was eating, they'd be snarked at and driven off.

I've had puppies go through phases of inappetence, but rather than tempting them with something more appetizing, I simply waited it out. I never had a pup go much longer than a day or so without eating.

Another benefit of not having a picky dog is that you definitely know when something is wrong. If any of my dogs refuse food, I know that something is up, and if it goes on for very long, a vet visit is in order.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:39 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Oh yeah. Any dog that'll eat it's own poop will eventually eat it's food, if that's all you offer.

The key is - put the food down, and 10 min. later, pick it up again, no big deal, no stress. Every meal time, pick it back up without fuss and they'll realize that bowl will be going somewhere if they don't eat.

I used to stress about our hospice foster Holly - she had health issues. She lived on Tylan because of recurrent IBS. So to get her meds she had to eat.
I found if I stood there trying to get her to eat (placing her back at her food dish when she walked off) she was less likely to eat at all. I started just leaving and closing the door, and I'd come back and she'd have eaten.

Anthony, where she's your only dog you could set the food down, go shower, or whatever, and then pick the food she didn't eat up.
Act like nothing at all is wrong, and simply remove the food. When we stress over if they ate or not, we add all kinds of emotions to a process that should have no emotions in it.
She'll eat, eventually
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