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Old 11-29-2012, 11:31 PM   #11 (permalink)
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What's wrong with science diets?
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
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What's wrong with science diets?
Everything.

Let me get some ingredient lists.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:55 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Science Diet Large Breed Adult:

Ingredients:
Ground Whole Grain Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Soybean Oil, Chicken Liver Flavor, Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, Iodized Salt, vitamins (L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), Dried Chicken Cartilage, Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Taurine, Potassium Chloride, preserved with Mixed Tocopherols and Citric Acid, minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), L-Carnitine, Beta-Carotene, Rosemary Extract

************************************************** ************************************************** *************

Ingredients:
Ground Whole Grain Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Soybean Meal, Animal Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Soybean Oil, Chicken Liver Flavor, Dried Egg Product, Flaxseed, Iodized Salt,

Ok, So, let's just look up to the salt, because below salt, well, I think we can not worry too much about that stuff.

First incredient is corn -- not the end of the world but dogs are carnivores, and really, meat and meat meal should be up there in the beginning of the list.

The next is Chicken by-product meal. What exactly a by-product is is up for debate. I think that we can be pretty sure it does not include breast meat, and thigh meat, and back meat. It can contain some organ meat (probably intestines and all they contain), and beaks, and feet, and skin, and bone. Look for chicken or chicken meal. Meat and bone meal is probably better than Chicken by-product meal. It is cheap stuff -- what no human is going to eat. Can nutrients be dredged out of it, sure, but you can do a lot better.

Soybean meal -- why? This is simply a filler. Dogs do not need soybeans.

Animal fat -- Why not chicken fat, or beef fat? Animal fat can be ANY animal fat, whatever is cheapest this week.

Soy bean oil -- again, not sure why.

Chicken liver flavor -- flavor? Why? If there is meat then you do not have to add flavor.

Dried egg product is the first ingredient that doesn't make me choke, flaxseed is ok too.

This stuff is crap, and they charge about $32 for a 17 pound bag of it.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:55 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I think it might serve you well to learn a bit about ingredients in dog food- what to look for, what to avoid, etc.
The Dog Food Project - How does your Dog Food Brand compare?
I think this is an informative website that can really help you understand the difference between quality foods, junk foods, and those foods that disguise themselves as quality by making certain claims, like Science Diet.
Besides ingredients, the quality of the company itself is also important-does the company have a history of recalls? Are the ingredients they use from the USA (and other like countries), or from China? What kind of quality control process do they use?
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:08 AM   #15 (permalink)
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To compare that, this is Diamond Naturals Adult Chicken and Rice dog food, $30 for a 40# bag:

Ingredients:
Chicken, chicken meal, whole grain brown rice, white rice, cracked pearled barley, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), oatmeal, dried plain beet pulp, egg product, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, fish meal, salt, potassium chloride, choline chloride, vitamin E supplement, iron proteinate, zinc proteinate, copper proteinate, ferrous sulfate, zinc sulfate, copper sulfate, potassium iodide, thiamine mononitrate, manganese proteinate, manganous oxide, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, biotin, niacin, calcium pantothenate, manganese sulfate, sodium selenite, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, riboflavin, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

************************************************** ************************************************** ***************

Ingredients up to salt:
Chicken, chicken meal, whole grain brown rice, white rice, cracked pearled barley, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), oatmeal, dried plain beet pulp, egg product, flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, fish meal, salt

Chicken is the first ingredient, good, probably once the 70% water is knocked out, a whole lot less, but still it is in there.

Chicken meal backs up the chicken. Very good. This is chicken meat with out the water.

Whole grain brown rice -- not a requirement, but has more nutrients than white rice, and is more easily digested by most dogs than corn.

White rice -- unnecessary and probably put it so that when added to the brown rice it might actually add up to more than the chicken meal, but still it is an ingredient that will not hurt the dog.

Cracked pearled barley -- lots of foods went heavily to barley when rice cost increased due to a poor growing season.

Chicken Fat -- today, tomorrow, the next day.

oatmeal is good stuff, a filler, probably not necessary, but not terrible for dogs could be good for the skin and coat,, hard to say.

dried beet pulp aids in digestion

dried egg product -- wish it was eggs, but you can't have everything.

natural chicken flavor -- no idea what the heck this is needed for.

fish meal -- good for skin and coat probably trumps that chicken flavor, but whatever.

In all, much better ingredients and as ingredients must be weighted in the order that they fill according to volume, you can see that this probably has a lot more meat than science diet. And it is tons cheaper.
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:36 AM   #16 (permalink)
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So in general are most of you guys against omnivorous diets? I've seen many healthy dogs raised on omnivorous diets, so I don't really but into the "dogs are carnivores and should only eat meat" thing.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:09 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Dogs with good strong genes will be able to thrive on a poorer diet than others but the above advice from others is meant as general guidance.
For instance I met a Basset Hound of 18 years that was still healthy and had eaten nothing but Iams his whole life. But I would not feed my dogs that because I want to prevent as many health problems as possible and feeding him the best food is something you are able to control. You can always find exceptions.
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:00 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
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So in general are most of you guys against omnivorous diets? I've seen many healthy dogs raised on omnivorous diets, so I don't really but into the "dogs are carnivores and should only eat meat" thing.
??
None of the foods people suggested contain only meat.
What people are pointing out is that the foods you have asked about don't have enough meat in them. You don't have to buy into the dogs are carnivores theory, but a corn/soy based food is not a good diet for a dog.
Have you started to read that link I provided? It would be very helpful for you.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:39 PM   #19 (permalink)
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No. They did not get sick from transition. None of my dogs have ever gotten so much as gas from a "transition". The boxers had pools of dark blood and diarrhea and Jax was lethargic. Good luck with that.
I'm with Jax on the NO NUTRO!!! Zoey was lethargic, had bloody diarrhea, was VOMITING blood....I took her off Nutro cold turkey and placed her onto a new food and it stopped, she's never had another issue again and prior to that had never had problems on a food. Nutro nearly ended her life because I was ready to put her to sleep thinking I had no other option, taking her OFF Nutro saved her life. I will never again feed that food!! I'm not a food nazi either but I will stop and tell my story to people I see picking up Nutro to warn them. Far too many other good options out there to risk your pets health and life on Nutro. It might not even be diarrhea/vomiting or lethargy you experience, your dog (like many pets on Nutro) could end up with organ problems. Do you really want that to be a possible battle? Of course any dog can get sick but with the amount on Nutro who have issues, you can't help but point it to that one factor (That being Nutros food) when you've got dogs (And cats!) of all breeds/sizes/ages getting sick and diseased on this food in such similar ways.

Will you at least read over the 1,266 reviews that people have wrote with their experience on Nutro and consider the fact that with that many reviews this food doesn't even get 1.5 stars??

1,266 Complaints and Reviews about Nutro Pet Foods

Because it's crap. You can even Google "Nutro Problems" or "Nutro Complaints" for more information and reviews on their poor food.

Plenty of good foods (And yes, they're are "omnivorous"...heck even GRAIN FREE is technically still omnivorous since it contains fruits and veggies...) out there to try that will do your dog better than Nutro. Check for Pro Pac, Eagle Pack, Dr. Tims, Victor, Earthborn Holistic, Fromm (Gold or Classic line is good bang for your buck with no lost quality compared to their 4* line), California Natural (LID food), ect. Good brands, good prices and they'll feed your dog well without the well known risk that comes from Nutro.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:04 PM   #20 (permalink)
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ack thats what Im feeding my 2 Natural choice lamb and rice
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