Lots of carbs for higher energy dogs - take II

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

) xenabella
New Member

Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 4


Lots of Carbs for higher energy dogs?
Has anyone else heard that you should feed higher energy dogs more carbs? To release more seratonin in their brains, thus making them more calm. I would have thought higher protien would have been better?

[Jax08]

Here is a source from a vet

http://www.windyhollowvet.com/Docume...ailureDiet.pdf

While dogs don’t have a nutritional need for carbs, ....

Do Dogs and Cats Need Grains? 2/5/05

Dogs and cats do not need carbohydrates, and most veterinary textbooks agree:

• Canine and Feline Nutrition "The fact that dogs and cats do not require carbohydrate is immaterial because the nutrient content of most commercial foods include (carbohydrates).(2)
• Small Animal Clinical Nutrition III, written by the founder of Science Diet (Mark Morris Sr.) and his son (Mark Morris Jr.): "Some question exists regarding the need of dogs and cats for dietary carbohydrate. From a practical sense, the answer to this question is of little importance because there are carbohydrates in most food ingredients used in commercially prepared dog foods."(3)
• The Waltham Book of Companion Animal Nutrition: "There is no known minimum dietary requirement for carbohydrate..."(4)

There are many more sources with a quick google search.



While they may not need carbohydrate sources, what vitamins/minerals are they lacking by not getting the same fruits/veges when we take out the carbs? To me, that is really the question that needs to be answered.


So on to the seratonin search....

[Emoore]

Carb sources in dog food are any grains or starchy root vegetable: rice, wheat, corn, potatoes, sweet potatoes, oatmeal, barley, etc.

I think the answer to the OP's question lies in how the carbohydrates are processed in the kibble. As an example, think of which would be the best meal for a kid before school: waffles or oatmeal? One is highly processed and will tend to cause problems concentrating; the other is a slow-burning fuel that will give him all day energy to study and pay attention. Another example would be potato chips vs. potatoes.

Does anyone know how different carb sources are processed in kibble?

If you don't know how the carbs are processed, I'm thinking it may be better to go higher protein instead of higher carb, if you're looking to calm a higher-energy dog.

[Jax08]

Human information

Judith J. Wurtman, PhD: Dropping Serotonin Levels: Why You Crave Carbs Late in the Day

now to find the study I read on aggressive dogs being more aggressive late in the day due to dropping seratonin levels

[Jax08]

Looks like a good reference but unfortunately, more relative to cats and rats.

Nutrition of the dog and cat: Waltham Symposium number 7 - I. H. Burger - Google Books

[Jax08]

Aggression relative to seratonin levels
Low serotonin levels may contribute to canine aggression

Seratonin levels via lower protein diet
http://www.gsdhelp.info/behaviour/seratonin.html
benefittingbrainchemistry

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

Wow! Thanks to you both! I have some reading to do tonight!

[Jax08]

Foods That Improve Serotonin Levels | LIVESTRONG.COM

So, reading the above...all of the articles above....

1) Yes, Seratonin levels affect aggression, anxiety, etc.
2) Yes, increased rich carb diets increase seratonin levels in people.
3) Decreased seratonin levels affect aggression in dogs.

So the question really is

How do dogs process carbohydrates? Is it the same as people? If so, then what is true for people should be true for dogs in this instance.

[Jax08]

And to further confuse you....

FAT, CARBOHYDRATES AND FATTY ACIDS IN YOUR DOGS DIET

One study cited in the NRC publication Nutrient Requirements of Dogs shows that the digestible fat from one source provides 2.25 times the metabolizable energy concentration of digestible carbohydrate than from a second source for a single breed of dog. Another study cited showed how different breeds of dog need different amounts of carbohydrates or different carbohydrate to protein ratios in their diets. Therefore, if your dog is requiring a high carbohydrate or low carbohydrate diet due to breed requirements or lifestyle, you need to provide a diet with the correct carbohydrates (the proper amount and from the proper source) for the specific animal you are feeding.

Good article but can't find an sources. I would like to see something from a university study.

[Emoore]

I'm a little confused about what they mean in the blurb you just posted. . . . of course fat provides more metabolzable energy than carbohydrate. 1 gram of carbohydrate provides 4 kcal metabolizable energy, while 1 gram of fat provides 9 kcal metabolizable energy. Not sure what they're trying to say there.

I just finished a college-level anatomy and physiology class for health care majors. We spent 8 weeks on the nervous system with special emphasis on neurotransmitters. My main take-away from those chapters is that neurotransmitters are insanely complicated, and they never act alone. It sounds really simple to say, "Seratonin calms you down and carbohydrates trigger the release of seratonin, therefore we should feed carbohydrates to calm dogs down."

One thing I can say is that it is NOT that simple. Nothing to do with the nervous system ever is. The more I learn, the less qualified I feel to make judgments about this sort of thing.