C0Q10 and Kidneys

[Lesley1905]

Hey everyone!
We've been watching Brodys kidney levels for a little bit now. They seem to be staying consistant. His BUN is always around 29, 30 which is higher end of normal, phosphorous is normal, Urine Specific Gravity is normal, his Creatinine is usually around 2.0-2.2, which the higher end of normal is 1.6 according to the lab. I've had his kidneys ultrasounded and they look normal as well thank God! He doesn't show any symptoms of anything being wrong in the kidney department. The vet is wondering if maybe he got into something toxic when he was younger and it left a little damage on his kidneys, or maybe he was just born with higher numbers. We just stumbled on these numbers back in May when we had him neutered. Every 2-3 months I've been testing him to keep an eye on it. I've been doing alot of home cooking for him which he loves but also keeping him on a lower phosphorous dog food as well. I give him a 1000mg Vit C in the morning, and 2- 1000mg omega 3 at night with a 400 iu vit e with it. Sometimes I will give him 1/2 scoop of Nupro supplement as well. I've been doing some research on the Renal essentials vitamins by vetriscience and also coq10. I was wondering if anybody has had any experiences with these vitamins (renal essentials and coq10)? Also anybody have any insight or experiences in similar kidney issues? Looking at Brody, you would never think anything. He is approx 77 lbs, 1.5 years old, beautiful coat, full of energy, etc. Any insight would be appreciated! Thanks everyone

[Lesley1905]

Anybody anybody?!

[UConnGSD]

I had Wolfie on Renal Essentials during the early stages of his kidney disease and it was helpful. So I would highly recommend that supplement. I haven't tried the CoQ10 but I don't see any harm in trying it.

I would also recommend home-cooking your pup's food. I saw the biggest improvement in his kidney values when I started preparing Wolfie's food myself. His appetite also showed remarkable improvement. So if this is a possibility for you, it also allows you the freedom to tweak and adjust his diet as you keep monitoring his creatinine levels.

Not sure if your vet has mentioned Azodyl... it is a bit expensive but that can also be quite effective. Essentially, it is marketed as "dialysis in a pill".

If you have other questions, please feel free to ask

[Lesley1905]

Thank you so much I was actually reading up on some posts about renal issues with Wolfie. I think I will try both of those supplements. Right now, Brody has no issues with food so thats good. Dinner time is always home cooked/raw. Morning time is Renal MP by Royal Canin. When this bag is finished, I think I'm going to switch it to homecooked as well. I just received his bw and his numbers have gone down from the very first time. Did Wolfie show signs of renal issues, or did you stumble on it as well?

[UConnGSD]

You are welcome I am glad to hear that Brody's numbers improved! Positive healing thoughts go out for sustained improvements.

Wolfie had two horrible e-coli infections back-to-back when he was a puppy and that's what did a number on his kidneys. The first infection wasn't treated aggressively enough and then it came back with a vengeance. He was then diagnosed with Stage 3 chronic renal failure at 8 months.

Regarding the Vitamin C, you might be able to up it to 2000 mg. I use the Buffered Vitamin C, as it's easier on the stomach. And I split it up in 2 doses.

[Lesley1905]

Poor Wolfie!! I'm not glad that Wolfie has had these issues, but I am glad that your on here and can share your information. We never found out what could have happened with Brody or what caused his kidney damage. My vet was wondering if maybe he could have got ahold of something that was toxic to the kidneys but never gave us any indication that something was wrong. Or maybe he was just born this way? I think in a couple months I'm going to do another ultrasound, it will put it close to a year from the last one, just to make sure they still look fine. It's just sooo confusing trying to figure out the best diet, supplements, etc. I apologize in advance if I ask you alot of questions! Are you feeding Wolfie an all raw diet?

[UConnGSD]

Glad to help! And fire away with the questions because I totally understand how confusing all this can be.

I was feeding Wolfie an all-raw-meat diet at the beginning of his kidney disease. But one of the things that happens with this disease is that they start getting nauseous very easy. And then they don't feel like eating which is not good. I did see a remarkable improvement in terms of his nausea when I cut down the amount of protein. Also, the big worry is the phosphorus level. We have to keep a lid on that given the failing kidneys and eventually have to restrict the protein because it contains phosphorus. Right now, Wolfie's diet is as follows: 7 - 8 oz pureed green veggies, 7 - 8 oz raw muscle meat (no bones anymore -- too high in phosphorus) and 14 oz white rice. Higher phosphorus levels affect the creatinine levels too. I do give him calcium supplements (2 600mg caps w/o vitamin D) to compensate for the lack of bone in his diet.

This website (http://dogaware.com/health/kidneydiet.html) has a wealth of info too. I especially love their list of foods with the amount of phosphorus levels. That really helped me in figuring out Wolfie's diet.

One thing you might want to discuss with your vet is putting Brody on Calcitriol. These guys get all kinds of secondary issues because of kidney disease. One of which is that their parathyroid hormone can get elevated, which then messes up the body's ability to process calcium & phosphorus, which then makes the creatinine levels go up even more. And once the parathyroid hormone level gets elevated, it is very very hard to bring it back down. Calcitriol is aimed at keeping this hormone in check. But the phosphorus level has to be under 6 for the dog to be on this medicine.

[Lesley1905]

Gosh!! It is so confusing...it would be so much easier if there were only a couple factors that went into it. I downloaded this spreadsheet from Yahoo Kidney Diet group that helps me track his numbers. I tried to attach it but it won't let me on this website, I'm guessing since its off of excel! If your interested in seeing his numbers let me know and I can email it to you! Plus it always helps to get another persons opinion I ordered the Renal Essentials vitamins so I should have those next week. I've been doing alot of research on Coq10 and it helping lower creatinine levels. It says 1mg per pound. Brody is about 77. I started him on 50mg tonight. At dinner time is when he gets his homemade meal. Tonight he had sweet potato, with green tripe, and some carrots. I need to get a scale to give it more of an accurate measurement. I do rotate the veges and also switch between white rice, baked potato, and sweet potato. I also rotate the proteins with egg whites, ground beef 80/20, ground turkey meat, etc. When I do a homecooked dinners, I do throw in a Tums for the calcium carbonate. I have looked at that Dog Aware website as well, sometimes I feel like my eyes are going crazy trying to keep up with it all !! He seems to be very happy. He gets about three 20 minute sessions each day of playing ball, sometimes a jog with my husband as well. He is always hungry and looks healthy. His coat is beautiful, and doesnt look too skinny or heavy. With all of that, I'm guessing he's feeling pretty good. I'll have to ask my vet about the Calcitrol. I really need to buy a grinder so I can do the eggshells for calcium/phosphate binder. Ahhhhh!! So much to worry and think about and learn! But he is worth it!!

[Samba]

I used Azodyl and CoQ10 with my BC. She really loved her renal diet and we were religious with it. It was predicted that she might make 6 more months, but we got two years.

[LisaT]

Be sure to rule out any possibility of lyme disease, including possibly congenital lyme. No lyme vaccines, they can also cause the same kidney damage that lyme disease can. Very often when lyme hits the kidneys, there are no other symptoms.