Oh What The Heck - Another Value Pick

[sable123]

Someone offline double-dared me to put this one up. I had a dog with me a few months back that was eating it and looked great. I spent the day shooting (the gsd does not like gunshots oh well but is learning to point) and several guys had dogs, several breeds, on it and they looked great. I even checked ears, skin, pads and anus- all good.

Loyall Active Adult & Loyall Professional.

Loyall? Pet Food: Products - Active Adult
Loyall? Pet Food: Products - Professional

I know they read horribly but some of the ingredients are labelled in the technical names, not what you are used to seeing. Like Fermentation Presscake is listed as a probiotic fermentation product on other foods.

These foods are ultra low in ash and have great numbers and high quality vitamins and minerals. I do like the by-product meal used. I know I know its says "poultry". All it could be is a mix of chicken and turkey.

They both are priced below 80 cents lb.

[Lucy Dog]

Regarding this thread: Poultry by-products as the first ingredient and no chicken/turkey/whatever meal anywhere else to be found?

Regarding another thread: You mind updating your BB recall thread with specifics? You left some people hanging over there.

[sable123]

Originally Posted by Lucy Dog

Regarding this thread: Poultry by-products as the first ingredient and no chicken/turkey/whatever meal anywhere else to be found?

Regarding another thread: You mind updating your BB recall thread with specifics? You left some people hanging over there.

I don't have any more info on BB. I was told about it. Maybe I should have put a question mark after the BB post.

"Poultry By-Product Meal" can only be a mix of chicken and turkey. These are the only two birds raised here commercially. Typically, it is 60% Turkey and 40% Chicken. The 27% food is only 5.5% Max Ash, which means this is just skin, back meat, organs and the intestinal tract...good stuff. I bet the Ash is below 5% tested.

I did some research on how the food is made and it is made like Annamaet. The carbohydrate ingredients are cooked separately under a very controlled process, in a pressure cooker to ensure they are gelatinzed.

[Lucy Dog]

Originally Posted by sable123

I don't have any more info on BB. I was told about it. Maybe I should have put a question mark after the BB post.

Gotcha... so you're not sure if it's even true. That question mark would have made it a little less confusing. Let us know if you hear anything because i'm sure there are a lot of people feeding BB here and nothings in the news yet.

Originally Posted by sable123

"Poultry By-Product Meal" can only be a mix of chicken and turkey. These are the only two birds raised here commercially. Typically, it is 60% Turkey and 40% Chicken. The 27% food is only 5.5% Max Ash, which means this is just skin, back meat, organs and the intestinal tract...good stuff. I bet the Ash is below 5% tested.

I did some research on how the food is made and it is made like Annamaet. The carbohydrate ingredients are cooked separately under a very controlled process, in a pressure cooker to ensure they are gelatinzed.

You think organs, chicken backbones, skin, and whatever else those by-products this food consists of is good enough as far as meat content goes?

Wouldn't you rather see some kind of non by-product meat meal in there like chicken or turkey meal?

And regarding the ash, maybe I'm misunderstanding what they're saying, but how did you come up with that 5.5% ash number? Reading their description regarding poultry by-products, they have their ash listed at 11% which I know you consider high. Am i understanding this correctly?

http://www.loyallpetfood.com/loyall/.../na3025066.pdf

[sable123]

Originally Posted by Lucy Dog

Gotcha... so you're not sure if it's even true. That question mark would have made it a little less confusing. Let us know if you hear anything because i'm sure there are a lot of people feeding BB here and nothings in the news yet.



You think organs, chicken backbones, skin, and whatever else those by-products this food consists of is good enough as far as meat content goes?

Wouldn't you rather see some kind of non by-product meat meal in there like chicken or turkey meal?

And regarding the ash, maybe I'm misunderstanding what they're saying, but how did you come up with that 5.5% ash number? Reading their description regarding poultry by-products, they have their ash listed at 11% which I know you consider high. Am i understanding this correctly?

http://www.loyallpetfood.com/loyall/.../na3025066.pdf

The amino acids are actually better in the by-products, seriously. If consumers were more educated about it and more accepting, more companies would use them. Everyone would be better off. Websites like Dogfoodadvisor.com and others scare people into thinking they sweep it off the floors and then "denature" them with chemicals but that is not true. Very sad they do that. If the bag said "A meal made of chicken and turkey skin, organs, cartilage and meat" most people would say that sounds good. Don't raw feeders use a lot of "by-products'?

The ash content of 100% poultry by-product meal is 11% but the food is not 100% meal, so that is where the 5.5% comes from. The ash for the food is on the bags but not on the website. By-product meal foods are lower in ash because they have less phosporhous, so calcium does not have to be added to balance them.

[jocoyn]

Seriously? That does not make sense about the amino acids being better in the by products. Please explain. I did have a problem seeing them loading the truck for the "dog food" rendering when I would buy raw at the poultry plant. Floor sweepings did go in (plastic bags and all)

[sable123]

Originally Posted by jocoyn

Seriously? That does not make sense about the amino acids being better in the by products. Please explain. I did have a problem seeing them loading the truck for the "dog food" rendering when I would buy raw at the poultry plant. Floor sweepings did go in (plastic bags and all)

http://www.hilarywatson.com/chicken.pdf

The amino acid levels are generally higher in the skin and organ meats and are easier to digest because they are not bound with high mineral content.

I think people just assume that because a food says 'chicken meal' that the quality is better. That could be true but generally it is not. The grade of by-product meal used in good dogs foods is just as good as chicken meal. Chicken meal is just necks and backs ground up anyway.

All I am saying is not to believe everything you read. There are bad by-product meals and there are bad chicken meals.

If you asked any nutritionist and they answered objectively they would pick the high grade by product meals.

[Emoore]

Originally Posted by sable123

http://www.hilarywatson.com/chicken.pdf

I think people just assume that because a food says 'chicken meal' that the quality is better. That could be true but generally it is not. The grade of by-product meal used in good dogs foods is just as good as chicken meal. All chicken meal is is necks and backs ground up anyway.

I think it's kind of like corn. Because cheap, crappy foods use corn and corn gluten as a protein source, people have gotten the idea that all food with the tiniest speck of corn in it is bad. But any kibble has to have a starch, and every research study I can find says corn is just as good a starch source as rice or potatoes.

[sable123]

Originally Posted by Emoore

I think it's kind of like corn. Because cheap, crappy foods use corn and corn gluten as a protein source, people have gotten the idea that all food with the tiniest speck of corn in it is bad. But any kibble has to have a starch, and every research study I can find says corn is just as good a starch source as rice or potatoes.

And people think a dog is like a child so when the word by-product comes up they flip out. Green Tripe is a by-product right? Beef hearts? Liver?

Anyone that has a farm will tell you their dogs eat more animal poop than anything!!! Fresh, dried out, covered with fly eggs. I have seen terriers gorge themselves on maggot infested deer carcasses and they do just fine. I have two dogs that eat belly-fulls of earthworms out of manure piles. I don't think high grade by-products are really an issue...heheheheheheh

[msvette2u]

Originally Posted by Emoore

I think it's kind of like corn. Because cheap, crappy foods use corn and corn gluten as a protein source, people have gotten the idea that all food with the tiniest speck of corn in it is bad. But any kibble has to have a starch, and every research study I can find says corn is just as good a starch source as rice or potatoes.

Actually the trend is now any "grain" is the devil, it's all about grain-free now.
We got some donated food in, a good brand, btw, but it uses peas for the starch. And I am soaking it for this emaciated Dachshund we have, and it smells like pea soup!