Early Socialization Before Completed Immunizations

mkfisher · 02-14-2013, 11:50 AM

My GSD puppy is just over 7 weeks old. I have read everywhere that I should socialize him early - at a variety of places, with multiple sounds, stimuli and people. He will be a very large dog. I need to build trust, I need to be able to handle him, and I don't wish him to be skittish or frightened of EVERYthing or body.

He had his initial shots at 6 weeks. I've taken him on car rides, which he seems happy with...taken him to see friends (didn't place him down outside or in their homes)....and introduced him to the immediate neighbors. The vet advised me last evening NOT to take him out and about until all shots are done - which he estimates will be at about 16 weeks of age. I can understand not placing them on the ground (they can still pick up illness in my own yard if strays pass through), but not to carry them either? I've only got one chance to get this right, so I want to do it right. Thank you for any help and advice you can provide.

1sttimeforgsd · 02-14-2013, 12:23 PM

I do not understand why you can't take him places as long as you carry him? I do know that he can't be on the ground for fear of picking up illness because his immune system is not ready. Maybe someone else will come on and answer this, other than a fear of some sort of airborne thing I have no idea.

GoSailGo · 02-14-2013, 12:49 PM

I was in the same boat, but my vet told me socialization IS as important as worrying about illness. If your boy is going to be big, you might have trouble carrying him around until he's 16 weeks old, but I don't see why you can't carry him around. Stay away from the pet store and dog parks. I carried Navarro around until after his second round of shots and then he was just too big and wiggly. He's now 15 weeks and I can barely lift him. He will be walking in to the vets office on his own next week. Theres NO WAY I could carry him. We go all over the place. Usually to parking lots of big stores and around malls. Few dogs but tons of people. I also give Navarro colloidal silver in his water, which makes me feel a little better.

I'm not much of an expert, but in case you didn't know, here's my understanding of how vaccines work: The 6 week immunizations probably didn't do anything because the pups already have maternal antibodies from their moms. That usually wears off some time between 6 and 16 weeks. This is why pups get immunized quite a few times during that period. The vaccines only start to work when the maternal antibodies have worn off, and this is when the pup is susceptible to deadly disease. Unless you want to spend hundreds of dollars on titer tests before and after each vaccine, you won't know when your pup is completely safe. Parvo is anywhere and everywhere. It can be on a person's shoes, or hands or your floor. You can never be 100% sure your pup won't run in to parvo unless you lock him in a little box for a while. It sucks! And parvo is an awful disease.

You just have to decide whats most important to you.

mkfisher · 02-14-2013, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoSailGo

Parvo is anywhere and everywhere. It can be on a person's shoes, or hands or your floor. You can never be 100% sure your pup won't run in to parvo unless you lock him in a little box for a while. It sucks! And parvo is an awful disease.

You just have to decide whats most important to you.

Yes, I have learned this. What is really reprehensible to me are all of the people who parade their dogs everywhere - spend lavishly on them with clothing, food, and toys - but refuse to properly vacinate them and get them regular vet care.

I am investing TONS of love, time, and my heart & soul into Max - and I want to do the best for him I can within my means. I would have never taken him if I thought I couldn't care for him in the ways he needs - and deserves.

I will ride him in the car and take him everywhere that I can that doesn't have tons of dogs/animals. You're right - we will not ever be completely certain when he will be totally protected and safe, if ever. He is growing fast and is already a heavy little thing. I'm sure using reasonable care and good sense, I can socialize him okay without endangering him unneccesarily. Thanks muchly for your replies. They are appreciated

mkfisher · 02-14-2013, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1sttimeforgsd

I do not understand why you can't take him places as long as you carry him? I do know that he can't be on the ground for fear of picking up illness because his immune system is not ready. Maybe someone else will come on and answer this, other than a fear of some sort of airborne thing I have no idea.

Thank you for your note

I will just continue to carry him when I can and drive him in the car. Keep the neighbors, mailman, family, and friends close and let him hear and see all the sounds and sights I can expose him to - safely. His dad has ridden in the car and gone everywhere since he was 8 weeks old. He is protective of his master and his territory, but is a friend for life to those he has known forever. What a great personality he has, as well as his mate. She is more independent because she was gotten when she was 6 months...didn't have the best love and affection she should have had...but has adjusted quite well. I love them as my own....but we all know that GSD only has one owner

ImJaxon · 02-14-2013, 06:36 PM

Yah we went through this very thing with Jaxon. Vet scares the **** out of you and says keep him home. All the books and forums and everything says get him out and around everything. It really is quite the oxymoron.

We started to take him out after the second round of shots. He met other dogs, he met people. We stayed away from any dog parks and the pet stores though. Just to be safe.

He's now 4 months old/18 weeks almost, and he's at a doggy day care place for 4 days of intensive immersion with other dogs. There have to be 50 of them each day and they run around and act a fool all day.

You really have to consider that the pup only gets one chance to get that exposure.

Another thing we did was have puppy parties at home. We had some of our friends dogs that had all their shots come to the house and play in our yard. It was a risk, but a much more controlled one.

You can cure **** near any disease ( I said **** near any, don't flame me), if you catch it early, but you only get that one small window to make the most impact on the dog.

We watched him very closely after each exposure and tried to play it as safe as possible while still socializing him with other dogs.

He loves dogs. He loves people. He isn't afraid when loud noises happen. We still hope we've given him enough to get through his life.

Good luck to you!!!!

N Smith · 02-14-2013, 06:46 PM

For myself, I started socializing my puppies everywhere that people congregated at 8 weeks (Ironhide had her first shot at 8 weeks, 2nd at 16 weeks and that was it, Gladiator had the same).

I brought them to dog class right away (I am apprenticing/teaching), I walked her on mostly unused trails in the bush, main street, downtown, etc. I have done this with every puppy and not had a problem.

I do not bring them to areas where stray dogs congregate (yes there are areas where I live), but any store etc that would allow me to bring them in, they went there.

If you feel comfortable carrying your puppy do it, like others said, there is always a risk, you do your best to mitigate the dangers and get your pup exposed at the same time.

mkfisher · 02-14-2013, 06:51 PM

I very much enjoyed your post Jaxon. Thank you

And you're right - wanting to find that balance - and make the most of that precious time that will only come once - is most important. Reading your words made tears come to my eyes. I am so exhausted right now - little Max is only just over 7 weeks old...he still misses his mom and littermates....he is in housebreaking training (which is going quite well knock on wood)...and this is almost like it was bringing a newborn home. Thing is - I was 29 then...now I am 52. This too shall pass, and I know we will be friends for life. he depends on me for every little thing - some he will like, some he won't...but my job is to be the best companion, caregiver and Mom I can be. He has already tried to challenge my authority...LOL...sorry Max...ain't happening

Thank you again, Jaxon.

mkfisher · 02-14-2013, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N Smith

I walked her on mostly unused trails in the bush, main street, downtown, etc. I have done this with every puppy and not had a problem.

Looking forward to teaching the right way to walk on a leash. I have a retractable (lighter for his little self) and also a regular leash. Right now we just use it to go to the yard and potty....and also when I take him to visit a couple of my friends. The regular leash stays on him in the house while he is in my immediate field of vision....I am watching him like a hawk and we must be able to move quickly when it is potty time. I don't have a fenced in yard yet, and don't want to just take him out without something on him.

What is the best way for me to teach him to walk on the leash beside me. Harness? Retractable? Keeping leash short and controlled? Any advice you can share would be great. I'm assuming this would be the time to get started?

N Smith · 02-14-2013, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkfisher

Looking forward to teaching the right way to walk on a leash. I have a retractable (lighter for his little self) and also a regular leash. Right now we just use it to go to the yard and potty....and also when I take him to visit a couple of my friends. The regular leash stays on him in the house while he is in my immediate field of vision....I am watching him like a hawk and we must be able to move quickly when it is potty time. I don't have a fenced in yard yet, and don't want to just take him out without something on him.

What is the best way for me to teach him to walk on the leash beside me. Harness? Retractable? Keeping leash short and controlled? Any advice you can share would be great. I'm assuming this would be the time to get started?

I never used a retractable lead, basically, IMO, it teaches the dog that pulling is rewarding and means they can get away from you. How I started was on a trail with an 8 ft drag line. I held the end and practiced getting the puppy to walk with me for small increments at a time using a food lure. And when they did, they were released to run and smell whatever they pleased then we would start again.

Dogs work on this "opposite" system, so if you shorten your leash and force your dog to walk beside you, they will pull harder (you pull them in, they pull you out). So work on getting your dog comfortable beside you in a stationary position in the house using food lures and markers (later moving to shaping), and then practice this EVERYWHERE. You want your dog to WANT to be there, force will just create conflict, which is way harder to correct later.

I also left a shorter drag line on in the house

02-14-2013, 11:50 AM	#1 (permalink)
mkfisher New Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 16	Early Socialization Before Completed Immunizations My GSD puppy is just over 7 weeks old. I have read everywhere that I should socialize him early - at a variety of places, with multiple sounds, stimuli and people. He will be a very large dog. I need to build trust, I need to be able to handle him, and I don't wish him to be skittish or frightened of EVERYthing or body. He had his initial shots at 6 weeks. I've taken him on car rides, which he seems happy with...taken him to see friends (didn't place him down outside or in their homes)....and introduced him to the immediate neighbors. The vet advised me last evening NOT to take him out and about until all shots are done - which he estimates will be at about 16 weeks of age. I can understand not placing them on the ground (they can still pick up illness in my own yard if strays pass through), but not to carry them either? I've only got one chance to get this right, so I want to do it right. Thank you for any help and advice you can provide.

02-14-2013, 12:23 PM	#2 (permalink)
1sttimeforgsd Crowned Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: West Virginia Posts: 6,814	I do not understand why you can't take him places as long as you carry him? I do know that he can't be on the ground for fear of picking up illness because his immune system is not ready. Maybe someone else will come on and answer this, other than a fear of some sort of airborne thing I have no idea. __________________ karen, mom to: ace-gsd (bi-color) 6/14/2010 mandy-yellow lab 1/31/2009 baby-terrier mix 11/25/2000

02-14-2013, 06:36 PM	#6 (permalink)
ImJaxon Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 131	Yah we went through this very thing with Jaxon. Vet scares the ** out of you and says keep him home. All the books and forums and everything says get him out and around everything. It really is quite the oxymoron. We started to take him out after the second round of shots. He met other dogs, he met people. We stayed away from any dog parks and the pet stores though. Just to be safe. He's now 4 months old/18 weeks almost, and he's at a doggy day care place for 4 days of intensive immersion with other dogs. There have to be 50 of them each day and they run around and act a fool all day. You really have to consider that the pup only gets one chance to get that exposure. Another thing we did was have puppy parties at home. We had some of our friends dogs that had all their shots come to the house and play in our yard. It was a risk, but a much more controlled one. You can cure near any disease ( I said ** near any, don't flame me), if you catch it early, but you only get that one small window to make the most impact on the dog. We watched him very closely after each exposure and tried to play it as safe as possible while still socializing him with other dogs. He loves dogs. He loves people. He isn't afraid when loud noises happen. We still hope we've given him enough to get through his life. Good luck to you!!!! __________________ Jaxon Von Sharksalot AKA Sharky McSharksalot AKA Chueson Allaurstouf This is me

02-14-2013, 12:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
GoSailGo Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 193	I was in the same boat, but my vet told me socialization IS as important as worrying about illness. If your boy is going to be big, you might have trouble carrying him around until he's 16 weeks old, but I don't see why you can't carry him around. Stay away from the pet store and dog parks. I carried Navarro around until after his second round of shots and then he was just too big and wiggly. He's now 15 weeks and I can barely lift him. He will be walking in to the vets office on his own next week. Theres NO WAY I could carry him. We go all over the place. Usually to parking lots of big stores and around malls. Few dogs but tons of people. I also give Navarro colloidal silver in his water, which makes me feel a little better. I'm not much of an expert, but in case you didn't know, here's my understanding of how vaccines work: The 6 week immunizations probably didn't do anything because the pups already have maternal antibodies from their moms. That usually wears off some time between 6 and 16 weeks. This is why pups get immunized quite a few times during that period. The vaccines only start to work when the maternal antibodies have worn off, and this is when the pup is susceptible to deadly disease. Unless you want to spend hundreds of dollars on titer tests before and after each vaccine, you won't know when your pup is completely safe. Parvo is anywhere and everywhere. It can be on a person's shoes, or hands or your floor. You can never be 100% sure your pup won't run in to parvo unless you lock him in a little box for a while. It sucks! And parvo is an awful disease. You just have to decide whats most important to you.

02-14-2013, 06:46 PM	#7 (permalink)
N Smith Master Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Whitehorse, Yukon Posts: 535	For myself, I started socializing my puppies everywhere that people congregated at 8 weeks (Ironhide had her first shot at 8 weeks, 2nd at 16 weeks and that was it, Gladiator had the same). I brought them to dog class right away (I am apprenticing/teaching), I walked her on mostly unused trails in the bush, main street, downtown, etc. I have done this with every puppy and not had a problem. I do not bring them to areas where stray dogs congregate (yes there are areas where I live), but any store etc that would allow me to bring them in, they went there. If you feel comfortable carrying your puppy do it, like others said, there is always a risk, you do your best to mitigate the dangers and get your pup exposed at the same time.

02-14-2013, 06:51 PM	#8 (permalink)
mkfisher New Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 16	I very much enjoyed your post Jaxon. Thank you And you're right - wanting to find that balance - and make the most of that precious time that will only come once - is most important. Reading your words made tears come to my eyes. I am so exhausted right now - little Max is only just over 7 weeks old...he still misses his mom and littermates....he is in housebreaking training (which is going quite well knock on wood)...and this is almost like it was bringing a newborn home. Thing is - I was 29 then...now I am 52. This too shall pass, and I know we will be friends for life. he depends on me for every little thing - some he will like, some he won't...but my job is to be the best companion, caregiver and Mom I can be. He has already tried to challenge my authority...LOL...sorry Max...ain't happening Thank you again, Jaxon.

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