Boundaries with other people

[whorneff310]

I have been bringing my puppy to my martial arts school for the last three days. I bring him out at the end of the kids class so that if kids and parents want they can give him treats and pet him. I also do the same thing after the adults class. It's a great opportunity to socialize him. He is a very laid back puppy, but playful also.

My wife brought him out towards the end of the class while I was still training and left him with a few students. The puppy was being pet and loved it. And when I came over he was asleep on one of the students laps. What do you think about this?

One of the main reasons I got him was so that he would be a great guard dog for my family and my children which I plan to have in two years. I want him to be socialized but I was wondering if I was doing something wrong with allowing the puppy to fall asleep on a strangers lap as opposed to just letting strangers pet him.
Wil

[Ceasar]

There are different ways you can look at it. I think it's great that you are socializing him around all different types of people. In doing so, you'll allow him to develop his own sense of people. He'll be a dog you can take out in public without him being terrified or anxious.

I adopted Ceasar when he was 3 and he was SEQUESTERED from DOGS AND PEOPLE for the first 3 years of his life. He was petrified around my dogs, petrified at Tractor Supply, walking on the street, etc... You don't want this.

An unsocialized dog is a dog who has a much greater potential of making a hasty decision in an unsure situation due to lack of exposure and ability to develop his own inner sense... AND his ability to gauge YOU by seeing and feeling YOU around different people. Lack of exposure can stunt his maturity and development and even manifest itself IN your home with your children. I have learned that GSD's react to their owner. Labs react to situations. As you take him out in public and react to different people, he'll hone his ability to read you.

I feel that you are doing the right thing.

I have so far had 5 dogs in my adult lifetime, labs, mixes and one GSD. I have taken great pains to socialize them ALL with children, strangers, family, other dogs, etc... they are ALL big meatballs but have ALL (even Ceasar whom I've only had for almost 7 months) had occasion to suddenly become protective by gauging a situation (labs) or gauging me (GSD).

If you want purely a guard dog/ attack dog/ canine officer/ then a specific training with limited socialization IS in order.

If you want a family dog that will enjoy social situations and people, you are doing the right thing. He'll grow to be a self assured, relaxed, don't-sweat-the-small-stuff kind of dog. He'll know different types of people and have the chance to come across shady types, feel, smell, sense them and their similarities as well as their differences from the kind of people he'll flop on top of and go to sleep. In the end, you'll have a well rounded, mature, socialized, happy being. That said, NO WORRIES, he'll protect you and/ or your family when and if he needs to whether he falls asleep in a strangers lap as a pup, or not.

[Konotashi]

That's great. A solid socialization foundation is necessary for any 'guard' dog.

You want your dog to know what is and isn't a threat. It'll take time, training, and conditioning, but GSDs are notorious for being able to tell if someone has ill intentions or not, and will act accordingly. (But DON'T expect it! TRAIN for it)!

[whorneff310]

Originally Posted by Konotashi

That's great. A solid socialization foundation is necessary for any 'guard' dog.

You want your dog to know what is and isn't a threat. It'll take time, training, and conditioning, but GSDs are notorious for being able to tell if someone has ill intentions or not, and will act accordingly. (But DON'T expect it! TRAIN for it)!

Thank you both for your advice and taking the time to respond. It's really helpful to know that I'm doing the right thing. I just wanted to know what you mean when you say train for it? Is there some type of training that you can do without going full on personal protection that would allow them to protect on command?

[onyx'girl]

I think as long as the pup is enjoying all the attention, it will be fine, but if he's feeling overwhelmed then he deserves his space.
As he matures some, you'll see a change in his attitude, he'll become more aloof to strangers(friends will always be friends!)
As far as training for 'protection' just give him a strong obedience foundation, because an obedient dog is fairly intimidating.
A dog that won't come when called, or just does what he wants, blowing off the handler shows that the handler doesn't have control. If someone observes you and your dog and see's that your dog is into everything you ask and under control, you can bet they will be aware that the dog can do what you ask and then some!

If you really want a protection dog, get with a club or trainer that has a good reputation/credentials.

[whorneff310]

Originally Posted by onyx'girl

I think as long as the pup is enjoying all the attention, it will be fine, but if he's feeling overwhelmed then he deserves his space.
As he matures some, you'll see a change in his attitude, he'll become more aloof to strangers(friends will always be friends!)
As far as training for 'protection' just give him a strong obedience foundation, because an obedient dog is fairly intimidating.
A dog that won't come when called, or just does what he wants, blowing off the handler shows that the handler doesn't have control. If someone observes you and your dog and see's that your dog is into everything you ask and under control, you can bet they will be aware that the dog can do what you ask and then some!

If you really want a protection dog, get with a club or trainer that has a good reputation/credentials.

Thanks for the advice. I appreciate it

[carmspack]

"If you want purely a guard dog/ attack dog/ canine officer/ then a specific training with limited socialization IS in order."

Do not agree with this . Any dog that we have put in for executive protection , or service dog , whether it be general service PSD , to Maximum Prisons dog in Oklahoma , to celebrity guard -- always got extensive and varied social exposure , experience . The more the better .

This is a different situation though in that you are taking the dog to a martial arts class , with people not acting normally. In my day to day I don't encounter people flipping through the air, taking stances , moving forward with jabs and kicks . Not even during the holidays at the check out counters . The dog may be getting a very skewed false sense of normal, so when someone yells and wants to pop you on the jaw the dog may think - sure - seen that - okay , no problem here . He will be too dulled or too conditioned to this as a normal state.

I would not bring him back into the room during actual training . To enhance his social experience and to make him useful to you , take the dog into a training situation so that you have good control .

[doggiedad]

i think what you're doing is fine. i wouldn't leave my
puppy with children even if i was in the room with them.
if you want a PP dog find a trainer and do it correctly.
some GSD's are protective and some aren't. i always
say "whatever it is i want to be protected from i want
my dog protected from it also".

[whorneff310]

Originally Posted by carmspack

"If you want purely a guard dog/ attack dog/ canine officer/ then a specific training with limited socialization IS in order."

Do not agree with this . Any dog that we have put in for executive protection , or service dog , whether it be general service PSD , to Maximum Prisons dog in Oklahoma , to celebrity guard -- always got extensive and varied social exposure , experience . The more the better .

This is a different situation though in that you are taking the dog to a martial arts class , with people not acting normally. In my day to day I don't encounter people flipping through the air, taking stances , moving forward with jabs and kicks . Not even during the holidays at the check out counters . The dog may be getting a very skewed false sense of normal, so when someone yells and wants to pop you on the jaw the dog may think - sure - seen that - okay , no problem here . He will be too dulled or too conditioned to this as a normal state.

I would not bring him back into the room during actual training . To enhance his social experience and to make him useful to you , take the dog into a training situation so that you have good control .

Great point. That never occurred to me. Thanks for the advice. My main concern is having a home guard dog who will be protective of my family. I don't have kids yet but will in two years so I'm trying to socialize him. I want to find a way to get with a good trainer who can still keep the GSD friendly with children but can protect in case of a break in while we are sleeping. I live in Bergen County NJ

[whorneff310]

Originally Posted by doggiedad

i think what you're doing is fine. i wouldn't leave my
puppy with children even if i was in the room with them.
if you want a PP dog find a trainer and do it correctly.
some GSD's are protective and some aren't. i always
say "whatever it is i want to be protected from i want
my dog protected from it also".

Yes I'm torn because my primary motivation for getting a GSD was for home protection for my wife and kids when I have them. I didn't want to take on another pet for the sake of having a pet. But I want it socialized enough so that it doesn't get aggressive towards my kids when they are born. But it's primarily for home protection