Confusing behavior (is this fearful behavior?)

[studio1one]

Originally Posted by Kittilicious

I guess I don't see why you feel I am catering to the fears, I'm not. And I didn't really think he acted inappropriately in this situation, except for the growl when we went to leave. (which is why I posted this in the first place, I wasn't sure) We just have not been put in a situation yet where he had to deal with a stranger coming onto his territory, so to speak (my parents house is as much his house as our own). He's seen strangers on walks and on car rides (I take him to the store with me and he sits in the car). No, he hasn't been asked to meet strangers, but we aren't coming across many on walks during the winter and the soonest puppy class near me isn't until spring.
Anyone who would come to our house, he has been around since he was 5 weeks old, so they aren't strangers anymore.


Is the ignoring good or bad?

I have a pup with a very similar temperament that I have, in the space of 2 months almost turned around. She is still wary of people she doesn't know coming into the house but we have made progress on that front too. Out and about - in the park, the woods etc she now actively seeks people out, whereas when she first used to go out she would back off or growl at anyone that approached her. I have done this by getting her out to places with people every single day and keeping her under her threshold but gradually moving her threshold forwards. Then when we could get close to people with her being relaxed and happy people who wanted to pet her I would explain she was shy and just ask them to drop her a treat. this advanced to her taking them from peoples hands if they held it out sideways and didn't look at her to the point now where she will go up wag her tail at people and sniff at them. She still doesn't like to be petted on the head by strangers but is happy for them to stroke her side or under her chin.

The point the other poster was making is that by not socialising her at this vital age and working hard on getting her used to strangers you are not helping her get over her fears. It is no fun having a large strong and fearful dog, you owe it to yourself and your dog to build her confidence and make her have a happy balanced life, as she can't spend her life not interacting with anyone.

My dog is still far from perfect in the house and I know I have a long way to go but I actively hunt out people she has never met coming to the house and when they do buiding her confidence and manners with them.

I think you really need to do the same.

[Kittilicious]

I guess my posts were sort of confusing. Knuckles is not sheltered by any sense of the word. No, we aren't seeing a lot of people on walks right now because of it being winter, but he comes with me almost every day in the car. We also go down to the school at least once a week so that he can sit & watch the kids walk home from school. Thats just a small part of the things we do.
My OP was about him meeting a stranger on his own territory, in his own home (my dads home is just as his home as ours is). He hasn't had to deal with that yet - strangers coming into the house. Outside of our home, on walks, he does pretty good. A couple barks here & there, but we are working on that.

[studio1one]

Ah ok. I understand what you are going through and it's not easy. The longer you leave it without him having to deal with it the harder it will be for him. Not as a lecture but as someone who has similar issues I really recommend you work hard on getting people to come over the house and training him to be comfortable and confident with it. Teaching him the correct responses and rewarding him for performing them over and over and over again will really help.

From a personal perspective, because he is scared I would try and do it without corrections but by guiding him to success and when he does what you want going really over the top with praise and reward.

[puppyluv]

I am going through this with my 5 month old puppy too! I didn't realize how anxious/fearful he was feeling until this week when someone came to the door to deliver groceries. I had previously made a habit of having new people greet him at our door with treats with no problem but it had been a while. Now I know that I need to step up our socialization again and how to go about it. I've been having him go around town with me too but not having close enough contact with new people. Thanks!!!!

[Kittilicious]

Originally Posted by puppyluv

I am going through this with my 5 month old puppy too! I didn't realize how anxious/fearful he was feeling until this week when someone came to the door to deliver groceries. I had previously made a habit of having new people greet him at our door with treats with no problem but it had been a while. Now I know that I need to step up our socialization again and how to go about it. I've been having him go around town with me too but not having close enough contact with new people. Thanks!!!!

I really think there is a complete difference between socializing around town and in your own house. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.
I'm testing the waters today. I put a "guinea pig" request out on Facebook yesterday for anyone who HASN'T met Knuckles to come over this wknd. We have one couple coming over today to meet him, so we'll see how he does.
Its hard to socialize at home though, especially when you have a small selection of friends/family who visit.

[MaggieRoseLee]

Originally Posted by Kittilicious

I really think there is a complete difference between socializing around town and in your own house. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.
I'm testing the waters today. I put a "guinea pig" request out on Facebook yesterday for anyone who HASN'T met Knuckles to come over this wknd. We have one couple coming over today to meet him, so we'll see how he does.

Its hard to socialize at home though, especially when you have a small selection of friends/family who visit.

While at home is different, and it's great you are having more people coming over.

There IS a coorelation, especially for puppies, with people that you meet and greet OUTSIDE of the home.

And while it's great you are driving him to school to

We also go down to the school at least once a week so that he can sit & watch the kids walk home from school.

THAT is in no way the same as when people are up close in the home.

Once again, I recommend getting the baggy of treats out and going out among the masses WITH your puppy. Everyone doesn't have to pet him, but he needs to be comfortable with new people and know YOU are in charge and the leader and if you are calm then so will he.

He won't learn that far away and watching with you. He needs to be with you and close to the new stuff. NOT overwhelming. Not sending him over the edge. But among and with the 'new'. Close up LIKE IN YOU HOME WHEN PEOPLE COME OVER.

Our pups learn (if we teach them) to look to us, watch us, get guidance from us, learn from us, react according to US. So we need to expose them to new stuff, guide them safely thru, so they learn 'HEY, Mom/Dad is in charge and knows what they are doing after all!'

Sorry if I'm confusing with my recommendations. I also have few people ever coming to my house so realize THAT is not where I can socialize my pup. So what I do is become proactive with all the opportunities outside my home, and guess what? My dogs all do fine when people I want in the house come and visit. Here are some examples:

14 Week old German Shepherd puppy Agility Trial Socialization - YouTube

14 Week old German Shepherd puppy Agility Trial Socialization - YouTube

German Shepherd puppy 15 Weeks - Socialization at Dog Fair - YouTube

German Shepherd puppy 15 Weeks - Socialization at Dog Fair - YouTube

Glory B - 6 m GSD in Agility Class - Contact and Weave Training - YouTube

Glory B - 6 m GSD in Agility Class - Contact and Weave Training - YouTube

[martemchik]

I'm a little concerned only because at 5 months old my boy was happy meeting anyone and everyone that was around. He never cowered and would be pulling towards people on the street to say hello. The older he got the less he did it, and would only greet people he already knew. I know that even at a young age he was never scarred of strangers in or out of the home. We've never tested him on a true stranger that comes into the house (and hope to never have to), but I do know he does feed off my energy very well and depending on how I feel he reacts accordingly. I've only once been "fearful" of a situation outside and he got all chesty and puffy.

I worry about the avoid and hide behavior because it might turn into aggression at one point. He's only 5 months old and is still unsure of himself (which he should be) but when he gets older he might decide to take things into his own paws. I know you said that you think he's genetically fearful, but I would really try to work him past these kinds of situations. At 5 months he shouldn't have a worry in his head and coming up to say hello to a lot of people. I'd expect a change in personality pretty soon so this might become an issue down the road.

[Clyde]

I would also be very concerned that after 45 minutes in a room with someone who it sounds like was being totally neutral to him a 5 month old puppy would not be curious enough to at least try and smell the person.


The aloofness at such a young age combined with the fearful behaviour could cause some major issues as an adult unless you work through them now. Sorry I didn't notice are you participating in any classes right now?

Also you don't need to have the strangers give your puppy treats at first. I like to start out by just dropping treats on the ground around strangers (who are pretending the puppy isn't there) and see the puppies reaction. Is he comfortable enough to take food?

You can do this at home also. When people come over you can just drop treats then have the strangers drop treats. I would be curious how your puppy responds to this.

[Kittilicious]

Originally Posted by Clyde

I would also be very concerned that after 45 minutes in a room with someone who it sounds like was being totally neutral to him a 5 month old puppy would not be curious enough to at least try and smell the person.

Yep, that was my main concern too. Every other puppy I know would have been all into trying to figure out who the guy was. Thats why I was/am confused.

[Kittilicious]

Someone came over today he had never met. He barked and tried to act like a big bad dog and about a minute later he was licking her hand. During the barking he was pretty cautious, but not as scared as I figured he would be.