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Uh oh...here come the requests for Mali pups...lol

5K views 59 replies 19 participants last post by  Blitzkrieg1 
#1 · (Edited)
This is kind of a ridiculous test, imo. I think the GSD would have skid-addled if any more pressure was put on him. Interesting, none the less. I love the FB comments of all the people that are just certain THEIR dog would attack. I think most would take the route of the cane corso.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=681957538548002

ETA: The guard dog "tips" to test your dog at the end, are awesome. ;-)
 
#2 ·
lol i watched this today only i did not read the tips, the Mal looked off on a different planet lol in my opinion the one who did the best was Moose, he thought about it first then acted on it, and he did not have any protection training, infact i wonder what the mal would have done with out his handler telling him what to do, to be fair it should be a redo lol, the mal should just be left to its own devices before we can actually judge who did what the best
 
#5 ·
I didn't like any of them....honestly people liked the performance of the GSD?? I didn't take that GSD backing up, as him "Trying to decide." I took it as fear, with a pretty weak, unsure and unconfident grip, that would have been gone had the guy shouted a bunch and really went at him. I wasn't impressed with any of the dogs, but I think people will listen to the news casters and think, "wow, mali performed." I agree all the tests were kind of silly. Not really threatening, or "real" but I don't think the GSD was anything at all to write home about...none of them were.
 
#7 · (Edited)
I don't think that was a fair test for the Mal at all. The owner had to know that someone was going to test them that day, hence he wasn't scared or suprised at all. When someone breaks into your house, you aren't going to be calm, tension is in there air, whether displayed or not there is some fear and your dog picks up on that.. not allowing for that kind of scenario doesn't allow for a true reaction. Not only that but the guy came in with a sleeve which the mal knew he should bite from "protection" training, especially being in the early stages. AND was focused on direction from his handler. Without the true fear factor and surprise of the intrusion, it's impossible to test a true reaction.

To be honest, IMO, the cane corso and GSD reacted as most well behaved dogs probably would. I was disappionted that the GSD owner said "I wished he would have been more aggressive." It's not your dog's job to protect your house from intrusion. It's a nice deterrant and a some may respond but that's not the reality and if they wanted that reaction they should have trained for it.

Not only that but the guy coming in to "test" isn't going to be exposing the same feelings as one that doesn't know the dog is there, or is trying to get past the dog. This guy came in, not scared at all, expecting him there, and the dogs also probably picked up on that vibe and reacted to the "non-threat". An intruder, who hears the dog but enters is still going ot be weary and nervous, especially because they likely wouldn't come with a sleeve to protect themselves or the knowledge of training dog behavior to begin with.
 
#9 ·
I thought that an untrained GSD did have it in him to attack was pretty good.

I however think the guy intruder was overly attentive to the dogs. With the GSD he actually waved him back. I'm assuming an intruder wouldn't take that chance. It would have to be a pretty ballsy intruder to keep walking through a house with a dog barking though.

And I don't have dogs for protection. I'd hope they'd deter a break in with their bark, but that's about it.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I was wondering what others expect their dogs to do if any intruder comes in when owners aren't there. My dogs aren't loose in the house when I'm not home. People know I have dogs, that's usually enough in itself. They don't know how they are kept when I'm not home. I do expect the dogs to do something if I'm HOME and an intruder comes in. That's a totally different scenario, though. I don't think the test on the mal, with handler, was a good one. I wouldn't be holding my dog back if a scary person just walked into the house. The mal didn't seem too confident, I would have been curious to see what would have happened if the handler wasn't holding onto him. Cane corso was only a puppy, kind of unfair to put him in that situation, imo.

Also would have liked to see the GSD actually bite (he was out of camera range), don't think there was anything threatening about the dog biting as the guy was backing out of the house, he looked like a dog on a toy, no countering, no menacing, no true aggression...from my limited knowledge and what it looks like (still working on reading a dog during bitework/protection).

To clarify, I don't mean the guy had to be threateningly yelling at the dog, even yelling out in extreme pain, I'm betting would have startled the GSD to stop biting. Decoy doesn't have to be threatening, just startling (in this scenario to be more "real")...which most intruders would be.

ETA: I'm also guessing, if the guy had turned around and ran out, the GSD would have chased and maybe had more confidence in the bite (prey instead of defense)...maybe even the Cane Corso would have given chase if the guy had turned and run, which a lot of intruders would do if they came up on a dog they didn't know was there.
 
#12 ·
I personally don't want my dog to bite, especially when I'm not home. I know he'll bark, and hopefully that will be deterrent enough. If it goes any farther and they actually enter, I will take care of that. But bites mean I get opened up to lawsuits and my dog is opened to the possibility of being seriously hurt if the intruder has some sort of weapon that he fights back with.

A friend of my parents was sued when the robber jumped their fence and was severely bitten by their GSD. The man was charged with breaking and entering, but his lawsuit went through and my parents' friends had to pay his medical bills and "pain and suffering" as well as deal with vicious dog labeling and threats of confiscation by animal control. It was ridiculous.
 
#14 ·
This is ridiculous. The deterrent is the bark. If someone is stupid enough (or drugged up enough) to enter your house while there is a big dog barking then you had better hope your dog backs off and runs for safety.

I had a fear aggressive, rescued gsd who acted like Cujo when you came to my door and continued to act that way when you came in the house. I loved him but he was a HUGE liability. I much prefer Rafi who barks and growls but is friendly once people come in the house.
 
#25 ·
This is ridiculous. The deterrent is the bark. If someone is stupid enough (or drugged up enough) to enter your house while there is a big dog barking then you had better hope your dog backs off and runs for safety.

I had a fear aggressive, rescued gsd who acted like Cujo when you came to my door and continued to act that way when you came in the house. I loved him but he was a HUGE liability. I much prefer Rafi who barks and growls but is friendly once people come in the house.

Wrong you want the dog to move forward and engage the threat to give you time to get away or take other action. Anything less speaks to a lack of nerve and would be a washout.
If I just wanted a noise maker I would stick with the Chihuahuas. Cheaper and easier to keep..lol.


All the dogs in the vid were washouts as far as protection goes, I believe this very vid has been discussed in a previous thread.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Was that the point of the video? Was the discussion about if a person would break in? Or was it about what the family dog would do if someone actually broke in? :rolleyes:


Everyone knows that most burglars won't choose any house with ANY breed of dog (actually small yappy dogs are a huge deterrent because they alert and rarely shut up)....however, thanks for reiterating that...I guess.
 
#22 ·
Some one posted that video here some time back. I believe it was those trainers showing the misconception of "guard dogs". Thing that always got me was these guys are trainers and were producing this video stating that your dog would fail to protect your house, they still went in with a sleeve and no owners present except for the Mal.

I agree and they proved their point.
 
#28 ·
Thats fine, just realize your dog is not backing off because he knows he is more valuable to you then the flat screen.
He is backing off because he lacks the necessary nerve and aggression to preform a function the breed is supposed to be capable of.

This forum is dedicated to the GSD, which is ideally capable of PP and Guarding functions. Its not called the shelter mutt or the labradoodle forum. These dogs should be capable of these tasks regardless of your personal wants or feelings on the subject.
This common idea that we should expect the dog to run or back off because its not worth the dog getting hurt is probably one of the reasons the breed is were it is.

Consistently lowering the bar, one of the reasons most GSDs are capable of being no more then pets. Which begs the question, what is the difference between my GSD and some friendly mutt I can find at the local pound.

Answer: Beyond coat color...NOTHING.

About as useful as a Lab thats afraid of water.
 
#30 ·
I agree. He doesn't have the nerve to be a protection dog. I accepted that a while ago. And I know he's not backing off because I value him more than my computer. He'll either back off because he's scared, or he'll see it's a person and be super friendly and try to get them to throw the ball.

It's hard for me to believe that it's a huge common belief that the GSD is expected to back up or run for safety if there's an intruder. On the contrary, I run into possibly hundreds of people who get GSD's expecting their dog to protect them and attack intruders whether they have had protection training or not. I would say it is far more likely that the decline in the working ability of the breed has something more to do with unscrupulous breeders throwing together dogs without regard to the integrity of their bloodline to make a quick buck from the uneducated consumer market. Or dog owners who don't want to put in the work needed to keep a working GSD and create a market for a lower drive, more "manageable" dog like the Shiloh shepherds.

I also agree the German Shepherd should ideally be a breed that is capable of doing protection work should you need that of them, but in the real world it just will not always happen with every pup. Even excellent breeders have pups that wash out of protection. It is not nearly as common, but it does happen.

Finally, I got a German Shepherd because I wanted a German Shepherd. That's why I didn't get a shelter mutt. Regardless of whether he had the drive or nerve to be a protection dog, he was born and needed a home, so I gave it to him. I still wholly support breeders that strive to produce excellent shepherds capable of doing anything asked of them. Even if my dog didn't turn out that way, doesn't mean I don't believe that the breeders should do their best to work towards that ideal, driven working dog. But I'm also not going to fool myself into thinking that there will ever be a world where every German Shepherd is an ideal example of the breed.

I love my dogs more than anything, but I don't anthropomorphize. Not any further than as a joke anyways. I realize that Kaiju is not a capable protection dog who is backing off because that's my preference. He is a low-medium drive pet dog who will never be capable of doing any protection. While a great companion, he is not a good technical example of the breed and will never be bred, hence why he is neutered. I feel like you may have read a bit more into my words than necessary. I feel like everyone on the forum would enjoy the breed being the best it can be. A strong, intelligent, versatile worker with solid nerve and a dependable temperament. While that is the goal, not every GSD will fit this. I still support breeding for an ideal worker, but I'm not going to be unrealistic. Besides, I don't think I ever said my dog was capable of protection in any of my previous posts. :)
 
#32 ·
I keep watching that video and being so disappointed in how halfhearted the Malinois' bite was. It looked like he even sort of let go and then nibbled a couple times before running back. I'm glad I got a chance to go out to a PSA club and see an actual hard-hitting Malinois. It's definitely an experience to see one in real life!
 
#33 ·
All were crap. Also not comparable as the mal handler was present. If I were present and commanded it I'm 99.99% sure there'd be a brutal bite and fight ensuing.
 
#36 ·
If that guy came into my house he would leave (or maybe not) with a few malinois hanging off him.

This type of protective behavior is bred, not trained. When it comes to malinois, the key is control, they know how to bite, bark and hold, and clamp down at 5 weeks.

My 15 week old female malinois already thinks she's all that and will challenge anyone or thing, confident, sassy little lion.

So, yeah, most people don't want that in a dog because you need to control this type of behavior, train the dog, socialize the dog, work the dog every day. That's why I laugh when someone says a dog must have been "trained" to be mean... nope, usually they are "bad to the bone" from birth. "Bad" being a subjective term. I like this kind of dog.
 
#40 ·
I don't know what my dog would do and I don't want to find out. these days dogs won't stop a determined criminal and I'd say someone breaking into your house is determined. I don't want him to get stabbed or shot protecting my phone and $20.

it's not about the breed and what he's capable of. it's about me not wanting to lose him. also, I don't want him to have a bite record.
 
#43 ·
Is it possible that the dogs can sense that the person "breaking" into their home was not a threat? I am not making excuses for these dogs, but would the outcome be different if there was a person that was really breaking into the home? Could a dog sense the intentions of a person?
I do not know the answer, but I know my dog acts way different towards "shady" people than others.
 
#44 ·
Doesn't matter the intention. Why would any dog let a stranger into HIS house? Onto his territory uninvited?

I used to be the type that always left my door unlocked and let people come and go. No need to use the doorbell.

When my dog was around 8-9 months old, while I was brushing my teeth I heard him charge from the living room to the front door barking his head off. I thought he probably just saw another dog through the screen door so I continued to brush my teeth. When he didn't stop barking I went to check and my friend was standing there at the front door. She was just standing there frozen holding the screen door open. My dog didn't go outside to engage her and he didn't back up. He just stood there at the edge of the door and barked. I had to make him sit and invite her in.

When he was around 1 years old, my friend from out of town came over. Same thing. He opened the screen door and tried to walk in. Dog ran up to him and basically did a bark and hold at the door. The guy had dogs of his own and didn't think much of it. He used his body and tried to push his way through the dog. Dog bit him in the stomach. Dog up to this point has never had any "protection" training. Never seen a bite sleeve or suit. I never left my door unlocked again. You now have to ring the doorbell and be let in.
 
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