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Old 05-06-2014, 04:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Discrimination at the BMV by examiners.

(Just before I made the post, I received a call allegedly from a higher up in the state. I was assured from now on that their staff will be better trained on ADA rules and that employees will be instructed to give the name and contact information of their superior if it is requested. Though I tentatively consider the matter dropped, I reserve the right to make issue of it again and I feel that there should be a public record of it so the abuses are less likely to happen again.)
 
Quote:
To whom it may concern.
 
I was discriminated against, at the Ohio State BMV drivers license examination office @ 1720B S. Erie Hwy Hamilton Ohio on Friday 05-02-14. At first they discriminated against me by forbidding my service dog to be in the vehicle while doing the drivers test. I told them they were discriminating against me and I pulled out copies of summaries of the federal and Ohio ADA law out of my fanny/belly pack. The examiner asked what my disability was. Even though I offered to show them a copy of the summary of the ADA laws on service dogs, they didn't look at them, but they did do a 180 and then said that she could come, but they lied by denying that they had discriminated against me. They put me on the phone to someone they said was their supervisor. Their supervisor lied, claiming that they had not discriminated against me. I tried to explain, but she was a bigoted ignorant bully that would not listen to the facts. The stress of the discrimination and harassment made it more difficult to pass the exam.
 
After I finished the process of getting my license, I went back and repeatedly asked the name of the man that discriminated against me and repeatedly asked for the name their supervisor. They repeatedly refused to give me the name of their supervisor. The blonde female examiner, repeatedly refused to give me the name of the male examiner that discriminated against me. Instead they asked for my phone number. I was not going to give my phone number to bullies that have discriminated against me and have lied to me. Besides I didn't have my phone number on me, and it's only a temporary phone number. The examiner that had discriminated against me, came back from giving a road test, so I asked his name and he reluctantly gave it to me, but repeatedly refused to give me the name of his supervisor. Authorities should not be untouchables. They should be transparent and have integrity.
 
By repeatedly refusing to give me the name of their supervisor, examiner A***** and the blonde woman examiner were obstructing justice (immorally, perhaps illegally). The female blonde examiner that repeatedly refused to give me her coworker's name was also obstructing justice (immorally, perhaps illegally).
 
In my opinion the BMV violated three counts of the ADA.
 
1: At first examiner A***** discriminated against me by forbidding my service dog from going along on the drivers test.
 
2: Then examiner A***** discriminated against me by asking what my disability was.
 
3: Then the female examiner, discriminated against me by asking for papers on my service dog.
 
Below is a quote from the ADA that I handed to the female examiner. She looked at it and held it in her hand as she asked for papers on my dog. She violated the very ADA rules that she was holding in her hand.
 
American Disabilities Act, Quote:
 
"When it is not obvious what service an animal provides, only limited inquiries are allowed. Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform. Staff cannot ask about the personís disability, require medical documentation, require a special identification card or training documentation for the dog, or ask that the dog demonstrate its ability to perform the work or task.
 
A person with a disability cannot be asked to remove his service animal from the premises unless: (1) the dog is out of control and the handler does not take effective action to control it or (2) the dog is not housebroken. When there is a legitimate reason to ask that a service animal be removed, staff must offer the person with the disability the opportunity to obtain goods or services without the animalís presence.
"
 
 
Source
Revised ADA Requirements: Service Animals

 
I suspect that one or more of the examiners has a phobia or hatred of dogs. Examiner A**** claimed they had called their supervisor because they feared it would be a safety hazard to have the dog in the vehicle during the test. Even though my dog has a better temperament, is less hateful, fearful and violent than the examiners. I think the examiners are sociopaths. The female examiner was even smirking as she was discriminating. She seems to enjoy discriminating and hurting people (bullying). I think it is ironic how ignorant and bigoted authorities discriminate and jeopardize public safety; claiming that they are doing their job. My service dog normally rides in the back which is a separate compartment, so she will not interfere with the controls doesn't block as much of my vision. I think it is paranoid for examiners to fear a docile friendly service dog that is in a separate compartment. This dog has been to churches, grocery stores, hardware stores, the Beach water Park, East Fork beach, dog parks, sporting goods stores, etc...
 
I walk with a limp, stagger and cane; so I have an obvious physical disability. The dog sometimes assists me if I need help getting up off the ground, or crossing rough terrain, etc.
 
My blood sugar after the bullying by the BMV, dangerously increased 30 points. I suspect the pain and other stress from the BMV bureaucracy and discrimination aggravated my diabetes. The BMV authorities that discriminated against me, allegedly are a division of the Ohio Highway Patrol.
 
I feel that the examiner supervisors are derelict of their duty, for not educating their employees on ADA rules. I feel that some of the supervisors are complicit with the discrimination, because they have been making up excuses and enabling the rule violations, instead of taking corrective actions.
 
If the examiners that discriminated against me really felt deep down that what they were doing was right, they should have been willing to give me the name of their supervisor.
 
I don't know if the BMV & Ohio Highway Patrol is bound by federal and state ADA laws. Many abusive entities choose to discriminate because they are exempt and or the laws have little or no teeth. I feel Ohio should lose its federal funding for discriminating against disabled. I find it frustrating that law-enforcement officers and other government officials often consider themselves above the law.
 
PS
 
My service dog is a 10-year-old GSD that is mellowed out and very well behaved. She is starting to feel her age. She has had G.I. bleeding for several years, just got a diagnosis a few weeks ago. She has polyps and cysts/tumors. I don't know the difference between cysts and tumors and can't remember which one the vet said, but he said for as long as she has been bleeding that it's had a chance to spread, so surgery would probably make things worse and might kill her. She still is in good spirits and is not in pain but she often seems weak and tired probably from old age and bleeding.
 
I know many people may think that some of the ADA rules are silly and unreasonable. Like not allowing for authorities/businesses to demand certification to prove a dog is a service dog. Put yourself in the position of the disabled. If you are severely disabled there is a higher chance that you are under employed, or unemployed. IE living on social security. There is a good chance that you can't afford to spend $5k-$30K on a service dog that has "certification". There is a good chance that if you have a disability that you don't have the skills to work through the bureaucracy to get a formal certification. Requiring a formal certification process can be cost prohibitive to the poor disabled and overwhelm the abilities of some of the disabled. So requiring formal certification can prevent those that need service dogs the most, from having them. Spending $5k-$30k on a service dog when you are on Social Security is an unreasonable hurdle.
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Old 05-06-2014, 05:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Ok so the situation that you needed to take care of is resolved? Sorry you had to go through all of that!
Some people are just A holes any reasonable "human being" would have been more than willing to accommodate you considering the circumstances.

Maybe the person you were dealing with knew GSD's were smart dogs and he was concerned your dog may have been coaching you on the drive?!
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Old 05-06-2014, 05:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'm sorry this happened and that your dog is not well.

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Like not allowing for authorities/businesses to demand certification to prove a dog is a service dog.
I don't think it's unreasonable for people to provide proof that a dog is actually a service dog because too many people are 'faking' it these days.

Think of it this way, when people can easily get in anywhere with a dog that is not really a service dog, the dog misbehaves, it actually makes legitimate service dogs look bad.

I talked with a lady at petsmart last summer, she was bragging on how she took her GSD into the Atlanta Aquarium, told everyone it was a service dog even though it is not.

You also have to look at it from the business owners point of view too, they can't have, for instance, fake service dogs coming into their store and damaging merchandise or disrupting other customers.

We have to be fair to everyone concerned.
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Old 05-06-2014, 05:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Honestly, while I am sorry you were discriminated against, you letter is full of very slanderous statements and disproportionate anger and attacks. I think you called them sociopaths who were enjoying discriminating against you.

Pot-kettle. Say hi.


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Old 05-06-2014, 06:43 PM   #5 (permalink)
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So the OP is saying that they agree with the rule of not being allowed to ask for certification of service dog because so people can't afford the certification and appropriate training. Doesn't this also mean the dogs are under trained. There is a point to the certification. Under trained dogs should not be allowed everywhere in public.
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Old 05-06-2014, 06:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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This dog and this poster were taking a driver test! People abuse the system all the time, it's what people do.

Had it been me..."I'd" have said, "nice dog, let's get started on the test! Some people do that also!
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Old 05-06-2014, 07:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DobbyDad View Post
So the OP is saying that they agree with the rule of not being allowed to ask for certification of service dog because so people can't afford the certification and appropriate training. Doesn't this also mean the dogs are under trained. There is a point to the certification. Under trained dogs should not be allowed everywhere in public.
There IS no certification for service dogs.
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Old 05-06-2014, 07:49 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwenhwyfair View Post
I'm sorry this happened and that your dog is not well.

I don't think it's unreasonable for people to provide proof that a dog is actually a service dog because too many people are 'faking' it these days.

Think of it this way, when people can easily get in anywhere with a dog that is not really a service dog, the dog misbehaves, it actually makes legitimate service dogs look bad.

I talked with a lady at petsmart last summer, she was bragging on how she took her GSD into the Atlanta Aquarium, told everyone it was a service dog even though it is not.

You also have to look at it from the business owners point of view too, they can't have, for instance, fake service dogs coming into their store and damaging merchandise or disrupting other customers.

We have to be fair to everyone concerned.
It seems your version of being "fair to everyone" is to discriminate against and harm the poor disabled. "Being fair to everyone" is a platitude.

I think it's unreasonable to require certification, for the reasons I mentioned.

I agree that much of the problem is fakers, but I think you're looking at it in the wrong way. Probably because you likely don't have a disability, don't have a service dog and/or are not poor.

I think the fakers are causing a lot of problems not only for the reasons you mentioned, is because they flash so many fake IDs, vests and paperwork that many people think that it is real and required.

It's much like how Hollywood builds up unrealistic expectations on other issues.

Dogs that are a danger/aggressive or a nuisance can be ejected/bared. In some, if not all jurisdictions; fakers can be prosecuted. Though I don't know many that have been prosecuted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gsdsar View Post
Honestly, while I am sorry you were discriminated against, you letter is full of very slanderous statements and disproportionate anger and attacks. I think you called them sociopaths who were enjoying discriminating against you.
Stating an opinion or fact is not slander. You demonize righteous indignation.

The word sociopath fits their treatment of me.
"Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others"
Sociopath | Define Sociopath at Dictionary.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by DobbyDad View Post
So the OP is saying that they agree with the rule of not being allowed to ask for certification of service dog because so people can't afford the certification and appropriate training. Doesn't this also mean the dogs are under trained. There is a point to the certification. Under trained dogs should not be allowed everywhere in public.
The law as it is now is in favor of protecting the disabled. You can't please everyone.

While the leniency does open the window for under trained dogs, that doesn't mean that just because a dog isn't "certified", that it is any less trained.

For some organizations "certification" is about greed. Earning money. Some of the "certified" dogs have a very low level of training.

While opening the window for under trained dogs, can present problems it also can be a benefit. It means a dog can be providing service, at the same time it is being trained to a higher level.

For me and my dog training is really never ending; because my disability and circumstances are always changing. That's one of the good things about service dogs is they can learn and adapt.

Some disabilities and circumstances don't require a highly trained dog.

"There is no legitimate service dog certification or registration in the United States."
Source:
Certification and Vests | Service Dog Central

You seem to think the only way to train a dog is to pay someone else to do it? It's much cheaper and sometimes much better for people to train their own dogs.

Last edited by DogGone; 05-06-2014 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 05-06-2014, 07:56 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveEcho View Post
There IS no certification for service dogs.
In the context of being official by the government. You are correct.

However any organization or anyone can make their own "certification". "Certification" doesn't prove a dog is a legitimate service dog.

"There is no legitimate service dog certification or registration in the United States."
Source:
Certification and Vests | Service Dog Central

There is a good chance if you see someone flashing badges, "certifications", and flaunting vests; that they are fakers.

Last edited by DogGone; 05-06-2014 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 05-06-2014, 08:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I will probably get blasted..... won't be the first time

Just by observation here, understanding very little of human behavior.. but I have to wonder if the employees were reacting in kind to the behavior they were shown.
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