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This really chaps me

8K views 73 replies 24 participants last post by  A girl and her dog 
#1 ·
#2 · (Edited)
The alternative for these people is to blame themselves. That is too painful for them. I understand how someone suffering from something like losing a child to a dog attack will be trying to ban the dogs.

I thought the description of GSDs wasn't too terrible. Yeah, wasn't too kind to the working line dogs, ADHD and unsuitable for living in homes, but mostly it was a lot better than some of these anti-dog people say. He has listed there 15 fatalities attributed to GSDs in over 30 years. As popular as the breed is...

And, I don't know, it seems like, maybe it would be best if most people considering what breed of dog to get are steered away from GSDs, at least initially. Better for the breed if we weren't quite so popular.
 
#3 ·
Good Point

You make a good point about the GSD being to popular.

I understand their emotions as well, however to excuse irrational behavior utilized to influence others is not acceptable.

Not accusing you of that just trying to better describe the reason for my outrage and disdain.
 
#4 ·
Is this what angered you?
"Because they are so often used for police work, some lines of GSDs have developed behavior that makes them unsuitable as household pets. Police lines often suffer an ADHD-like excitability and lack of impulse control. Some have developed what looks like ‘impulsive aggression’ – sudden, unprovoked, disproportionately savage attacks on another dog or on a human. If you are considering a German Shepherd Dog as a household companion, it is important to be sure you choose a dog from a working guide dog line or a companion dog line, and avoid breeders who supply police trainers and/or shutzhund clubs. This is particularly important if you expect the dog to interact safely with children and with other animals."
 
#5 ·
"Because they are so often used for police work, some lines of GSDs have developed behavior that makes them unsuitable as household pets. Police lines often suffer an ADHD-like excitability and lack of impulse control. Some have developed what looks like ‘impulsive aggression’ – sudden, unprovoked, disproportionately savage attacks on another dog or on a human. If you are considering a German Shepherd Dog as a household companion, it is important to be sure you choose a dog from a working guide dog line or a companion dog line, and avoid breeders who supply police trainers and/or shutzhund clubs. This is particularly important if you expect the dog to interact safely with children and with other animals"

Wow, that's going to rile up a whole ton of people here, lol. It seems to be condoning BYB too, the 'pet market' type of dog. No mention of show lines though - I wonder where they fit in?
 
#6 ·
The woman does say to message her if she posted incorrect info.

I do agree that the average pet owner does not need to get a GSD from lines bred for police. We already had someone on this board have to return her dog because the breeder sold her a high-drive police dog that should not have been in a pet home with a 4-year-old in the first place.

It might be a good idea if, instead of getting all outraged, we could rephrase that paragraph and send it to her.
 
#7 ·
NO! The breed description is not it.

Using the unfortunate incident to ban breeds is the attrocity. GSDs will be next if this gets traction.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Instead of trying to get these dogs banned she should push education and that families of young children should think twice about having these dogs as pets.I really dont see a issue with her description of german shepherds. I think if you do have children you should be careful what line of german shepherd you are getting. Too many issues ive read on this forum and having a dog with nerves from a BYB I think its important to do just that.
 
#10 ·
I think it's ok, but there seem to be a lot of generalized comments, and I'd like to know where they got their information from. "Police lines" might not make good pets for the average family, but they don't even mention that. They say that the dogs themselves are unbalanced, lack control, and are violent. Any dog can be a "bad" dog. I think stress should be more on choosing a dog that fits your lifestyle, and then raising it properly.

One thing I was curious about, the description said to avoid breeders who supply Schutzhund clubs. Don't people bring their own dogs to a club? How does a breeder supply a club? Maybe I missed something. :eek:
 
#11 ·
A Proper working line dog should be the perfect family dog as long as it does not get stuck in a yard with no training, exercise, or attention. Yes there are high drive dogs that need to work and should be in working homes...not pets. BUT a well rounded working line dog with proper care and training would be a much better choice over a nervy, pet raised backyard breeder dog. They do seem to make it sound like you should avoid quality breeders!!!!
 
#12 ·
You know what ive noticed,

In all the bully dog attacked my baby news i see, they always show the picture of the dog who attacked, and the dog is always muscled out wearing a big huge spike collar.

When i see some people put those big spiked collars on their bully breed dog they are almost always trying to portray the worst. So, i have to wonder the mentality that went into raising the dog in the first place.
 
#74 ·
Couldn't agree more!!! It's those that are led by their egos and masculinity complexes that give the 'tougher' breeds a bad name. Thugged out guys wanting huge muscular dogs to brag about, then the dog ends up killing a small child, or another animal. These types have no clue about true control over the dog and what obedience really is.
 
#14 ·
When I see the spiked collars, I envision myself grabbing the dog by its collar and getting my hand all bloody on the spikes.

It doesn't matter what the article is about.

Now I think I must have an ax to grind about spiked collars.

I won't be buying one.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Proper care and training is one thing, and many people have those intentions, but then life gets in the way and they can't do the things they planned. This isn't just true for working lines though, its all GSD, and all breeds that were originally bred to have some sort of working purpose IMO.

This is exactly how all BSL starts...not sure why it would make anyone mad. That's the way our society works...its about prevention through not allowing ownership rather than education. I think this society has proven time and time again that no amount of education works. For every 999 people that can effectively own a "dangerous breed" there is 1 that doesn't and this type of thing happens. I completely understand why the lawmakers then go to not allowing all 1000 to own the breed because in theory...they can just get another breed of dog, that kid can't get another life. I'm 100% against BSL, but if my child was killed by a certain breed of dog that is known to be dangerous, I'd start just as big of a fuss about it.

I've also witnessed people purposely buying the black leather, studded collars. It was funny, one guy saw me walk by with my GSD and made a very proud comment that, "He can't bring his pit in the store because it would want to kill everything." Funny because my dog is getting trained in bite work and yet I have no problems at all bringing him to the store. I love when people think that others will be impressed by their DA or HA dogs...when in reality it just makes it a huge liability rather than something useful like a well trained dog can be.

I know this will be kind of controversial...but I don't get why some people do get the breed of dog they do. Like...unless you're working your dog in what its intended for, or if you're using some of its advanced abilities over another breed for something useful, do you really need that particular breed? Or will any breed give you the companionship you desire? And yes...plenty of people here own GSDs and pretty much have them for companionship, and I'm not saying its wrong, but the people on here are also generally better dog owners and can take care of that dog's needs.
 
#19 ·
He can't bring his pit in the store because it would want to kill everything.

What an absolutely stupid comment,
Not just a stupid comment, but just the way he said it. Like he's proud of that. I just don't get it. If my dog was DA I'd be more embarrassed than proud. I'd be upset that I can't do the regular/normal dog things with my dog that people like to do.

I love taking my dog to the petstore. I'd love to take him to any store if it was allowed. I borderline feel bad for those that can't take their dogs to a petstore because their dog isn't balanced enough to handle it.

I actually remember a time when a lady questioned me about how I can bring my GSD into the petstore...not due to anger or fear, but because she had an unstable GSD that she couldn't bring anywhere and she thought that kind of "guarding behavior" was normal for the breed. I could tell she was kind of envious of the fact that I could take my dog to the store and not worry about anything happening.
 
#20 ·
Ya i am right there, i take my guys into the pet store all the time, although i will say that, my border collie gets petted, as does my giant floppy earred GSD mix (kids flock to her, she is gentle and sweet with them) but Tyson is avoided like the black plague, children are yanked by their parents away from him like hes a time bomb waiting to happen, we continue on i tend to feel bad for him, although he is aloof and doesnt give a crap.
 
#21 ·
I cant understand those comments either. I love being able to take Dex places. It terrifies me that he may become DA as he gets older.

@ Misslesleedavis1. i get the same with Dex. luckily too, he doesnt seem to notice and doesnt care.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Instead of trying to get these dogs banned she should push education and that families of young children should think twice
Let me continue a bit aside. GSD is often called a "plasticine dog". A dog from a good breeder with good genes could be modelled into anything you like: he could be trained to react agressively, but he also could be trained to be a therapy dog working with children. A purebred GSD is potentially agressive, and everything depends not on the dog, but on the handler. Unfortunately, people cannot be trusted, people have to be controlled by the law. But, there's no law in US!!! Everyone who wants GSD can get a puppy. How many people want to have a PP dog? Do you believe they are ready to spend decades training him and want him to be super-obedient? I just suspect, that someone trains his dog on tramps... Very interesting...A bleeding to death tramp doesn't deserve as much pity as a child! I came across such GSD owners, a very special type of madmen, they want their dogs to be agressive and they are proud of it. Then, brainless mothers, who allow their toddlers to pester the family dog, do not read anything about dogs and do not watch their children. And, if the dog nips a child on his cheek in the way the adult dog would correct his puppy for wrong behaviour - there is a cry "Euthanize him, he has wrong genes!" But, who has ever checked the misbehaviour of the owner? IMHO, some dog owners should be in psychiatric hospitals, and many families shouldn't be permitted to have any other dog than Maltese. GSD should be licenced in order to filter out irresponsible owners.
 
#25 ·
i totally agree, thats why people with young children should be told this and told how much training and interaction these dogs need. So many with young children just dont have the time to do proper training. They get puppies because they are cute. Not wanting the dog when it gets older because it has been allowed to become a terror, BECAUSE they dont have the time to train the dog properly. How many of us see families with new puppies..taking the puppy out everywhere and then 6 months later the dogs in the backyard never to be seen again. You can only hear its cries and barking incessantly. Again educating the public on this is important. These dogs are alot of work unless they can become aggressive. People ned to be told this over and over.
 
#26 ·
Though GSD is a potentially agressive dog, I never heard that GSD savaged a child with a reason too little for attack. Mainly it is nipping for pestering, especially when a family dog wants to sleep during the day, or it could be playing and wrestling with a dog, so the dog's resistence was aggravated and led to agressive responce. In no way GSD could be compared to pit bulls or mastiffs. I believe, this mastiff has attacked the girl only because she was snorring in her sleep, and it reminded him a growling. I know that some dogs like bulldogs produce some snorting sounds due to difficulty in breathing which reminds growling, and they are often attacked by other dogs just for that. But, I'm absolutely sure, that no dominant, offensively agressive GSD would do this:
Mountsorrel dog attack: Lexi Branson - first pictures of the little girl killed by family dog - Mirror Online
 
#66 ·
For the record it was not a " Dogue De Bordeaux,"

"I wish that the Mirror would get their bloody facts correct about the dog. The dog pictured was not the dog that attacked the child at all. I have a Dogue De Bordeaux as in the picture and they are the most placid dog around kids. I have been yelled at by a woman today saying I should muzzle my dangerous dog all because some idiot reported that it was a Dogue De Bordeaux and not a Bull Dog. Unbelieveable and I am so angry about this. I feel sorry for the child and mother, but this is very bad reporting."
 
#28 ·
I think that while the parents' response is understandable, I believe that the legislating body in whatever location should not react to situations like this one by passing breed specific legislation. Maybe dog owners who are parents need to be charged when they leave babies and toddlers in positions where they can get killed.
 
#32 ·
Very true. it reminds me of the case where a family was blaming the neighbor and his dog for their toddler being killed. The dog was chained in his yard and they were questioning where the neighbor was when his dog was mauling their child. Where were the parents? of this child when their toddler was crawling through the back yard fence? outside alone? Why didnt the parents fix the fence that led to the neighbors dog? Its so sad because now a child and dog has to pay for our stupidity.
 
#30 ·
That, exactly. Not extreme. How many babies and toddlers have to DIE before people stop leaving them alone with dogs. A six pound dog killed and infant. People have to wake up. How can you carry a child in you for nine months and then fail so miserably to keep them safe? I mean, somethings you can't protect against. But no child should manage to shoot themselves and no child should be killed by their family dog.
 
#33 ·
I'm exaggerating about decades. I trained PP dogs, on one hand I regret that I had ever dipped into this, but on the other - I know how long it takes and how much effort you have to put in training. These dogs were raised as PP dogs from birth, trained and sold. In the way I have met many lightminded people who gave up before their "pet" was 2 for that or other reason, and I remember really well what happened after as a result. Nobody really can train a PPD in UK himself, and a very few people really need them, but the number of young men who wants to train their dog as PP is appaling. Police does their best about checking who is a trainer, still, the number of semi-trained dogs in public hands is large. People tend to overcome the law, good grief, the law exists.
 
#34 ·
I am not a fan of BSL but saying GSD will be next in line for BSL is a bit of a straw man argument.

BSL has been in place in some areas for 15 years and they haven't progressed to GSD yet. There is more BSL in Great Britain than in US and I don't believe GSD are on the list.

If you read the account of the attack on the little boy in question it is brutal- the dogs ripped the babysitter (the owner of the dogs) off the toddler as she lay over him trying to protect him from her dogs that were also savaging her. The dogs and baby were never allowed to interact. The babysitter made a mistake in allowing her dogs a chance to get at her, but this wasn't a case of the babysitter leaving a small kid alone with the dogs. I don't see neglect here at all for the dogs or the child. The dogs acted in an over-the-top aggressive way. It's heartbreaking the parents lost their child this way. If I were them, I'd try to educate people on potentially dangerous dogs, too. It's important for people to realize it is not always just about how you raise them. Some breeds need more management than others and are not for the casual dog owner.
 
#35 ·
I am not a fan of BSL but saying GSD will be next in line for BSL is a bit of a straw man argument.

BSL has been in place in some areas for 15 years and they haven't progressed to GSD yet. There is more BSL in Great Britain than in US and I don't believe GSD are on the list.
I agree. We have BSL over here in OZ....APBT are banned in my state along with the likes of Cane Corso and a few others I can't spell.
I don't get too worried about it all.....I don't think we will ever see a day where the GSD is a banned breed over here. There is no negative talk regarding them because they are only ever involved in minor bites (the ones that don't make the news).....no deaths, no shocking attacks as has been the case with APBT/mastiff type breeds so I wouldn't get too worried about it over there.
I agree with David Taggart.....they aren't really the breed that is going to pull someone down in a lobby and kill them for no reason......they won't be banned.
 
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