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Old 02-10-2013, 03:53 PM   #111 (permalink)
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All I can say is, volunteer at, and visit enough kill shelters and you'll be wanting to perform the surgery yourself, in the streets.
All the arguments will sail right on out the window.
Our kill shelter hasn't euthanized a dog in 3-4 years(except human aggressive ones) . I can't volunteer there, they have over 600 volunteers and aren't accepting any more. I think our city is like starved for animal affection lol.
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Old 02-10-2013, 04:00 PM   #112 (permalink)
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Default Sigh. I wish you all knew.

That's how it was when I visited the Seattle animal shelter. Must be wonderful!


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Old 02-10-2013, 04:35 PM   #113 (permalink)
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I've paid to have OTHER people's animals fixed.
I've actually TRIED to pay for other people's dogs to be fixed, and been snubbed! One girl posted on Craigslist that she had "rescued" a female Pit Bull that needed a lot of veterinary care. Can't recall what the problems were, but she was on Craigslist begging for money for the dog's care. I emailed her and told her that I would pay for her spay, but she had to be dropped off at the vet clinic--of HER choice--and I would go in there and pay for that portion of the bill. She refused. Predictably, about 4 months later the same girl posted on Craigslist selling puppies.

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Anyone who doesn't realize what a problem we have on our hands and is a responsible, educated owner, simply doesn't WANT to know.
Yep. And to an extent, I can sympathize with not wanting to know, because it's painful, frustrating and sometimes downright maddening. Ignorance is bliss, but contributing to a problem out of ignorance puts blood on your hands, IMO.

It's like people who eat meat and animal products, but don't want to know where it comes from. I'm a meat eater too, but not a blind one--I've butchered my own poultry. I simply buy meat from local farms whenever I can.
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Old 02-10-2013, 06:59 PM   #114 (permalink)
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The problem with no kill shelters is, the dogs have to go somewhere. The discards, the dumped, the turned out, turned in, whatever, they are still out there, will be roaming the streets, what-have-you, and the no kills can pat themselves on the back for...what, warehousing? Not all I'm sure, but I've heard of dogs sitting in shelters for years before someone finally adopts them.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:50 PM   #115 (permalink)
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I think at the very least, their living situation ought to be sounded out before saying "wait until the dog is 18-24mos". Because it really does depend on the owner's ability to keep the dog from reproducing. Being/getting pregnant is kind of just one of the concerns of course. If the person's method of keeping the bitch in the yard is a rope and a tree, there's going to be problems and the girl can easily get injured as well as pregnant.



Oh wow, I agree.
Yet I'm made to feel like I'm some sort of monster for mentioning it
Thing is, if it's so unsafe for a bitch to be spayed during pregnancy, how does one justify doing a c-section, ever!? Same surgery only you're now cramming the uterus back in after stitching it up, instead of taking it completely out!
Actually, it is not the same surgery at all. I have been there during a c-section. They make an incision and pull the uterine horns out, and remove the puppies, and they clean it or flush it, sew up the uterine horns, and then they put it back in the hole, and then they sew up and staple the abdomen. It really does not take all that long.

When you spay during a c-section, or when the dog is in heat, everything is blown up in there, and taking out the uterine horns and associated works, means tying off a lot of bleeders. The dog is under anesthetic a lot longer than if they would have done the same surgery a month later.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:39 AM   #116 (permalink)
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We've done a number of pregnant spays, though, and none have had issues, is my point.
Maybe we just have great vets. Well, we do have great vets
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:44 AM   #117 (permalink)
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Default Sigh. I wish you all knew.

We do pregnant spays every day. I've worked there a year and a half and never seen any major complications with any pregnant spays. We give extra fluids and monitor closely, They always do fine.


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Old 02-11-2013, 05:46 AM   #118 (permalink)
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Default Sigh. I wish you all knew.

I guess I should clarify that I am talking about spay with termination of pregnancy, not c-section spay.


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Old 02-11-2013, 09:59 AM   #119 (permalink)
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We do pregnant spays every day. I've worked there a year and a half and never seen any major complications with any pregnant spays. We give extra fluids and monitor closely, They always do fine.


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This has been my experience; our vets are quite competent and will do the pregnant spays, although a few won't do it, if they can "see" the dog is pregnant. Those vets are very "old school".

Our vets are willing to do it because they deal with the ramifications of rampant pet overpopulation daily, and because it's what is best and makes the most sense not to mention it's what's healthiest for the dog.

We can't afford an emergency c-section in the middle of a weekend night, and when the option is there to terminate, we'll take it every time.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:31 PM   #120 (permalink)
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I think it's irresponsible of people in the medical field to brush potentially SERIOUS and life-threatening complications under the rug to fill an agenda. And this comes from someone who has worked in the shelter system in low-income areas, someone that has dedicated their life to veterinary medicine, someone that works EXTREMELY hard for the well being of the animals.

You are right, most owners SHOULD spay/neuter, and young, as they are not responsible enough to handle those animals. But to not warn people that may, for example, own a rottweiler pup that a university study showed 1 in 4 rottweilers altered BEFORE 1 year of age developed osteosarcoma, an EXTREMELY painful cancer often diagnosed too late and with a very poor prognosis? Or to not warn people with a female dog that it may very well lead to incontinence? An issue alone that compels many people to euthanize? To not warn owners of male dogs that neutering INCREASES the chance of prostate cancer, which has no good prognosis? Or to not warn the owners of a golden, a breed EXTREMELY prone to cancer, that spaying before sexual maturity increases the chances of splenic masses that even after surgical removal usually give an estimated lifespan of <6 months?

MANY MANY MANY pet owners are idiots. But they're going to be idiots one way or another. There are even more, and I see these owners every single day when I work general practice, that want to do what's best for their dogs because they LOVE their dogs. And the only way to IMPROVE pet ownership is to educate. How many people feel alienated because vets push procedures such as early spay/neuter with no clear warnings or discussions? Just do it do it DO IT?

Shelters should spay/neuter every animal that goes through their doors, regardless of age, I'm not arguing that. But I will NEVER hide the true facts from an owner I feel is responsible and simply trying to educate themselves and do whats right by their pet. And in my opinion, a responsible owner waiting until sexual maturity is the BEST thing they can do for their pet.
I think this is an awesome post!

I told a vet in Keneewick, WA when I lived up there that I would leave her practice if she asked me one more time WHEN I was neutering Havoc. He had SIBO and was there frequently and not one visit went by that she didn't aske me when we could schedule that procedure. I fully intended to neuter him -when I was ready and not because she thought every dog should be altered early. She never gave me any reaosn for or against, it was just the thng to do. WHY?
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