Nat Geo new show 'Alpha Dogs' Good or Bad for WLs?

[flynbyu2]

I've seen four episodes of the show and think it's great.

I also know and respect Ken Licklider. He teaches classes at a K9 seminar I attend every year; the content of his classes is second to none.

They sell numerous breeds of dogs through his kennel. They choose the dog by it's capability, not it's breed.

Also in regards to cost for law enforcement and obtaining dogs, the initial price of the dog is the cheapest part of the equation.

A typical K9 vehicle is over $40,000 fully outfitted.
Each K9 handler receives an animal stipend
We invest countless hours (both on working days and days off) in keeping the dogs up to speed in their abilities.

Also, law enforcement has numerous grants available to them to receive dogs for free.

My department received 4 fully trained Explosive Detection dogs from a company called Pups for Peace. The grant was made to the Department of Homeland Security and included fully outfitted K9 vehicles.

I think Mr Lickliders show is great and I plan on never missing an episode.

[Debbieg]

Originally Posted by flynbyu2

I've seen four episodes of the show and think it's great.

I also know and respect Ken Licklider. He teaches classes at a K9 seminar I attend every year; the content of his classes is second to none.

They sell numerous breeds of dogs through his kennel. They choose the dog by it's capability, not it's breed.

Also in regards to cost for law enforcement and obtaining dogs, the initial price of the dog is the cheapest part of the equation.

A typical K9 vehicle is over $40,000 fully outfitted.
Each K9 handler receives an animal stipend
We invest countless hours (both on working days and days off) in keeping the dogs up to speed in their abilities.

Also, law enforcement has numerous grants available to them to receive dogs for free.

My department received 4 fully trained Explosive Detection dogs from a company called Pups for Peace. The grant was made to the Department of Homeland Security and included fully outfitted K9 vehicles.

I think Mr Lickliders show is great and I plan on never missing an episode.

This! I also like how the show uses different breeds.

[Gwenhwyfair]

With all due respect, at the end of episode four one of the fellows told us what part of his anatomy gets happy after watching an explosion.

While these gentlemen may be top notch trainers you must agree that is unprofessional at the very least.

Please also consider the flack Cesar Milan has taken over the years and he deals almost exclusively with rescues which one would think would at least soften the criticism.

I think these gentlemen have obviously done great work in the past and are also smart businessmen but there is a downside to the 15 minutes of fame.

The producers keep running the trailer of 'If you wanna pet go to petco' over and over, consider how that plays with the public.

At the end of episode 4 I'm wondering how Cheyenne can be helped and what the back story to the pittie mix is and it ends as described above.

I'm tuning this one out.

BTW I'm very disappointed in Nat Geo as well and think they are part of the problem here.

Originally Posted by flynbyu2

I've seen four episodes of the show and think it's great.

I also know and respect Ken Licklider. He teaches classes at a K9 seminar I attend every year; the content of his classes is second to none.

They sell numerous breeds of dogs through his kennel. They choose the dog by it's capability, not it's breed.

Also in regards to cost for law enforcement and obtaining dogs, the initial price of the dog is the cheapest part of the equation.

A typical K9 vehicle is over $40,000 fully outfitted.
Each K9 handler receives an animal stipend
We invest countless hours (both on working days and days off) in keeping the dogs up to speed in their abilities.

Also, law enforcement has numerous grants available to them to receive dogs for free.

My department received 4 fully trained Explosive Detection dogs from a company called Pups for Peace. The grant was made to the Department of Homeland Security and included fully outfitted K9 vehicles.

I think Mr Lickliders show is great and I plan on never missing an episode.

[Gwenhwyfair]

My understanding is they do not breed...

Cheyenne the PTSD dog on the show had already been working in Afghanistan and was being reassigned (episode 4)


My guess is they have a contract with the DoD (in addition to other client bases such as LE)...what I don't understand is with the draw down in Iraq and Afghanistan where's the demand going to be coming from?

Whether you like the show or not you must admit that's a fair question.

Originally Posted by martemchik

I don't see an issue with it...anyone working their dogs in bite work has a bit of a bravado about them. Schutzhund people (and I don't mean this in a bad way at all) have a swagger about them because they're teaching their dogs something much more involved than the regular pet owner and something that does make their dog pretty bad-ass IMO. These guys are training their dogs to be life-savers, police dogs, military dogs...pretty awesome. Of course they think they're "the ****" in the same way that many of our countries CEO's and people making 7+ figures act in the same way.

These guys have a bunch of dogs that take down human beings, find bombs, ect. If I were training dogs like that, I'd have some "bad" about me as well.

Also...the comment about their kennel and the size...I don't know if they're actually breeding all these dogs. Seems like they'd have to get more than a few from outside breeders just to fill some of those quotas. They also have such differences in lines/breeds that they'd have to be looking else where for dogs. They're not just a breeding kennel, they're a training kennel...and make most of their money from the training aspect and not the puppy producing part.

[Gwenhwyfair]

Yup and I heard some negative comments while training last week.

Just wait 'til the PETA people get involved.

Originally Posted by onyx'girl

I read a comment on another board that this kennel is going to give their competition business if they continue with the show in the way its being represented.

[Galathiel]

I've recorded the shows and have watched the first few. I enjoyed a good bit of it. But ....the one thing I REALLY didn't like is when one of the guys said "these dogs are tools. If you want a pet, go to Petco." Now, I understand these dogs have jobs. But they are still living breathing animals and not just tools. I did not care for that comment .. at all.

[martemchik]

So everyone's issue with this show seems to be the guys and what they say and not the actual programing. So they say some stupid stuff and the producers blow it out of proportion (like the statement about the security clearances, why is that included in the intro?). I'm sure these guys aren't that happy with some of the stuff they're seeing get advertised and repeated over and over on the show...but at the end of the day its a TV show.

The first "reality work" show was American Chopper. I've watched the "making of" it and the producers said they really wanted to focus on the bikes. After the show came out, and they included some of the family drama, the response was way more towards that stuff than the actual building of the bikes. So this is why these shows focus on the human element...more people will watch. You'll still get us (the dog people) to watch because of the dogs, but you need a bigger audience for the show to survive.

For example...anyone that watched the "fight" between the father and son...so overblown and unnecessary. They built that issue up all episode from the beginning and then at the end the dad apologizes and everyone is happy.

[Gwenhwyfair]

It's not the only issue I've mentioned and others have mentioned other concerns, some have tried to redirect and make it seem personal when it's not.

I think you ask a fair question though.

IMO part of the problem is these are serious dogs doing serious work. To focus too much on 'characterization' of the trainers/owners does a disservice to subject matter. For me personally it's also boring. I want to learn more about the dogs not the fake drama between KC and the cop.

I have never given a thought to Bachelor/ette shows or Survivor Island and what not because hey...it's all kefluffery and just not my cup of tea.

One thing I've learned getting involved in protection sports is most (not all mind you) but most people who are truly committed to these type of dogs do tend to be serious about the sport and dogs so this is just the nature of the situation being created.

In addition to the other concerns I wonder if this is just a bad decision on the part of Nat Geo and the kennel in mixing apples and oranges in this format.

Also, fwiw I've NOT mentioned anything technically about the training as I do not feel I am qualified to critique that aspect. I can guarantee you, however, that type of critique is happening and will continue to happen.

If you think people are hard on Ceasar Milan or V. Stillwell just wait.

btw- I'm just the messenger here, this was all pretty darn predictable given the format.

This kennel is going to get feedback, it's bound to happen. Some of it will be fair, some of it won't.

I wonder if Petco likes this or not? I really don't know, could be good attention but petco does not sell dogs/kittens.

Anyhoo...As for me, I gave it a chance, 4 episodes, it doesn't appeal to me. Too much kerfluffery about the people, dramtic bits that look totally fake, not enough about the dogs. Back to my nerdy Micheal Ellis DVDs and Sheila Booth SchH OB book.

Originally Posted by martemchik

So everyone's issue with this show seems to be the guys and what they say and not the actual programing. So they say some stupid stuff and the producers blow it out of proportion (like the statement about the security clearances, why is that included in the intro?). I'm sure these guys aren't that happy with some of the stuff they're seeing get advertised and repeated over and over on the show...but at the end of the day its a TV show.

The first "reality work" show was American Chopper. I've watched the "making of" it and the producers said they really wanted to focus on the bikes. After the show came out, and they included some of the family drama, the response was way more towards that stuff than the actual building of the bikes. So this is why these shows focus on the human element...more people will watch. You'll still get us (the dog people) to watch because of the dogs, but you need a bigger audience for the show to survive.

For example...anyone that watched the "fight" between the father and son...so overblown and unnecessary. They built that issue up all episode from the beginning and then at the end the dad apologizes and everyone is happy.

[Gwenhwyfair]

One more thought, when I started this thread I really did not have a firm opinion one way or the other (concerns yes, but I was open to giving it all a chance).

Based on the show and what I'm reading here I do think a lot of you are right that this will not cause a problem with WL dogs becoming too popular with the general public.

I do think the show gives in way too much to the unfortunate aspect of many reality shows where it highlights ...well.. lets just say the wrong or less flattering aspects which have little or nothing to do with the dogs.

I do wonder about going from 160 to 400 dogs. I asked if this was a normal kennel size for this type of operation (again to be fair) and it looks like it's not.

IMO those who know the people at the kennel, I understand why they don't like the criticism of their friends, but these guys made a choice to proceed with this program. Perhaps listening to feedback can help them tweak, improve or even push back on the producers on some aspects.


Not all criticism is bad.......or meant with ill intent.

[SueDoNimm]

Originally Posted by martemchik

Yeah I noticed that too...when the dogs were going for a bite, they could care less about a tennis ball. It took so much work for the handler to get the dog to settle down after that bite...

I imagine it's kind of like my dog showing zero interest in treats if there's a ball around. I would hope part of their training would be to focus on their target even if someone throws out a ball, so that criminals carrying around tennis balls wouldn't be much of an issue. I do that with my dog just working on his stay and down.

I've been watching the show, but they show too much of the trainers and stuff I don't care about and not enough of the dogs.