British talk show host questions Cesar Millan

[codmaster]

Using treats and pos rein does work BUT it is not as good in training a dog who HAS to obey.

Also depends on WHAT you arte training - ROLL OVER, BEG, etc. great perhaps!

How about COME under great distraction, or "LEAVE IT" in the case of a rattlesnake?
(How many would trust just Pos Only(ie trets) training in the latter case?)

Proven and also admited by some of the leading pos only advocates.

[selzer]

[quote=mycobraracr;2620241]

Originally Posted by msvette2u

It makes sense they'd resort to prongs and e-collars to get faster results, because usually you can see the results almost instantaneously. QUOTE]


My question would be, "If I can train a dog to sit in an hour with a correction collar, then why would I spend two weeks to train it with luring or any other method?"

If it takes an hour to teach SIT with a correction collar, I will stick with luring where I can generally train a reliable sit in 5 minutes.

If it takes two weeks to train SIT with any method, maybe dog training isn't your thing.

[Whiteshepherds]

Originally Posted by codmaster

Using treats and pos rein does work BUT it is not as good in training a dog who HAS to obey.
Also depends on WHAT you arte training - ROLL OVER, BEG, etc. great perhaps!
How about COME under great distraction, or "LEAVE IT" in the case of a rattlesnake?
(How many would trust just Pos Only(ie trets) training in the latter case?)

Rattlesnake aversion. I think it's a really good example of when training with a shock collar would make sense. I knew you'd come up with a good example of when PR wasn't the best method of training eventually!

[mycobraracr]

[quote=selzer;2620573]

Originally Posted by mycobraracr

If it takes an hour to teach SIT with a correction collar, I will stick with luring where I can generally train a reliable sit in 5 minutes.

If it takes two weeks to train SIT with any method, maybe dog training isn't your thing.

You know this was an analogy right? I highly highly doubt you can train a reliable sit in any situation in five minutes. Thanks for playing


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[GregK]

Originally Posted by mycobraracr

I highly highly doubt you can train a reliable sit in any situation in five minutes.

5 minutes??? That's preposterous!!!

Takes at least 10 minutes!

[Olivers mama]

Originally Posted by gsdraven

Positive reinforcement training using treats does work... especially for rescues. However, it is all about doing so properly. Rate of reinforcement, value of the reinforcement and knowing when to switch those up are key to having a dog listen when training with or without treats. Done incorrectly such as giving a treat everytime the dog does something good will of course give you a dog that doesn't listen without a treat.

Yeah right - except how does 1 determine who is a good trainer? Or behaviorist?

1 of these days, I need to start a thread about our rescue adoption & training experience. Our experience doesn't belong in this thread, but I seriously doubt we're in the minority. Rescue told us where to go for "help". We spend way too much $$ for this new-fangled way of training = all treats, no adverse training. Never heard of NILIF until a member of THIS FORUM contacted me & offered to come out to our house & look at / work with this dog. HE is the one - a complete stranger, but a true love for the breed - spent a good amount of time with us, showing us where these so-called 'professionals' had led us astray.

Before that, I would've had CM or VS at our house - ANYthing to help us. It's all well & good that those of you with history of training or of worling with Rescues has been so wonderful for you. It's not always that way. My previous experience showed a dog did not have to be trained 24/7 to be a good dog. People slide toward the likes of CM & VS because they want answers & help -we're not all stupid.

[jae]

Is it not true that some dogs do require a heavier hand and harsher correction than others? One of the puppy tests I know of is sensitivities, and if the dog does not respond to a sensitive area as well as others, then it may be true that the trainer will need to use stronger and more forceful corrections than normal. So, when this guy is whining about CM "punching" a dog in the throat, what background does he have on the dog? Who knows what corrections were given before; these are problem dogs and I automatically think that the corrections that the owners were using were not sufficient, otherwise, the dog would respond to the correction, as they do to CM. Also who knows what editing was done before this "punch", or what corrections the owners and CM have failed with?

[GregK]

Has anyone seen this 'throat punch'? I've seen him do a finger jab but not a closed fist.

[jae]

Show down with Holly is what I am assuming he is talking about. Links all over that video for the first one, second one is the same idea.

Later in the video, why does no one see this as him going to pet praise the dog, rather than automatically "SNATCHING HER MUZZLE! NO WONDER!"

Dog Whisperer: Showdown with Holly - YouTube

Dog Whisperer: Showdown with Holly - YouTube

Cesar Millan hits dog in face twice - YouTube

Cesar Millan hits dog in face twice - YouTube

[Olivers mama]

I will ask again. (And again, I will probably not get an answer).

Just how would any of the pros here have handled the dog biting like that?

Our rescue has done this to me a few times. It hurts like hades. You're not supposed to strike the dog, you can't raise your voice, you can't act dominate...what would YOU do?