British talk show host questions Cesar Millan - Page 4 - German Shepherd Dog Forums

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Old 10-31-2012, 04:40 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Is the host of the show actually a dog trainer? I assumed the host was just a normal TV talk show host.
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:52 PM   #32 (permalink)
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My take is that the majority of "average, joe-schmoe" pet owners are the type of people who view a prong collar as a torture device while in the same thought they smash their dog's face into a poo accident in the house, smack them on the head, and take them outside... Kinda hypocritical.
You'd be wrong.
As a rescue we see all kinds of owners and screen their applications.
I've found that the general population has become quite aware that there's "good" and "bad" ways to train, I've found, and many are stating that ignoring unwanted behavior while teaching good(wanted) behaviors is far superior to "smashing faces" into poop, etc.
I'm impressed actually, and glad there's so much education out there.
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:56 PM   #33 (permalink)
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msvette2u- is that the owners dropping off the dogs, or adopting them? Big difference...

BTW- I completely agree with you that it's good to hear that training education is happening! I'm just kind of curious if the people adopting dogs from a rescue are the kind of people researching and learning about training methods while the people who are forfeiting their dogs are the kind of people who aren't? That would be an interesting correlation.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:01 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Good point but we don't take "drop offs" so I don't see them. I dwell on the folks adopting, really

I do find a very odd occurrence...where folks adopting will state they are gone 8-9hrs. a day yet will make time for the dog, while folks surrendering (on craigslist anyway) will say they are gone 8-9 hrs. a day and have no time for their dog!!!
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:08 PM   #35 (permalink)
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This was an awful video. I believe e collars are illegal in England as well.

The big bad electric shock thru the collar just feels like if you shocked your hand on a door handle or something in the winter. Not that bad, gets the reaction we want. Poking the dog in the ribs, kicking his underbelly and snapping him out of the behaviour when he's focusing in on something for example, a leash aggressive dog. I'd like to see the host of this show walk a l/a dog past dog kennels, see how he does without a prong collar. How do you otherwise CORRECT the dog? I can positive train all I want. I can teach a heel over the period of 8-12 months. But who wants that? My dog needs to go for a proper walk, so I throw a prong on her.

How does alpha wolf correct lower wolf? They nip the neck? Is this any different from a prong? I don't think so..
But they do train dogs without prongs and shock collars in England, and that is kind of the point, they can do it without the controversial tools, so they really are unnecessary. Cesar himself said that the tools are unnecessary, no pet shops where he comes from, they do not use prongs or e-collars to control dogs. Though leash manners seem not to be a big deal as leashes really aren't being over-used there either.

It does not take 8-12 months to teach a dog to heal without a prong collar, but a lot of Americans want just what you said, to just slip on a prong collar and shazaam! the dog suddenly walks on a leash without pulling you down the street. Problem solved, no point in wasting time or money on the dog, training it.

As for the alpha wolf statement, I just don't see the connection. Dogs are not wolves. We certainly are not wolves or dogs. I am sure half the equation understands that quite well. Dogs are pretty intelligent. They are better at understanding our body language and our training, than we are at trying to mimic our perception of their behaviors/language/communication. I will stick with being a human as the only involved individual who would be fooled by the alternative would be myself.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:19 PM   #36 (permalink)
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A good show to watch is "Dogs Decoded", selzer is right, we are not dogs or wolves so why should we try to mimic them?? Dogs know we're not and trying to act like a dog or a wolf only serves to confuse them.

Quote:
But they do train dogs without prongs and shock collars in England, and that is kind of the point, they can do it without the controversial tools, so they really are unnecessary.

It's our "quick fix" society that deems such short-cuts to training necessary.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:28 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Point well taken selzer. Now how does my puppy learn some independence and stop nuscance barking in a 20x20 kennel outside and jumping at the fence? Yell at dog, it does nothing. I can't throw anything at her because she's behind a barrier. How do I get my dog to stop barking? How to do ensure a solid recall, say with a rescue with high prey drive? How do they correct leash aggressive behaviours? I've been taught some sort of physical communication to snap the dog out of it when they lock in on something, then treat/praise.

I didn't think the prong was much different than nipping, sorry for that misconception. I don't know of any dog trainers out here or any people in general who can walk a dog on a nice loose leash, but I encourage you to share with me different ways to do this with my dogs as I've tried and failed.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:47 PM   #38 (permalink)
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How to train a dog to walk on a loose leash?

MaggieRoseLee!!! Where is your training a dog to walk a on leash u-tube???

All the dogs down in my signiture have been taught to walk on a loose lead without an e-collar or a prong collar. The best ways are to start when they are babies, 3-4 months old, but the methods work on any dog of any age. Then you can use treats to get them in position, praise when they are in position, or you can simply not go unless they are beside you and not pulling, or you can turn abruptly and go in the opposite direction, or you can use a combination of all of those methods.

I think MRLs video shows her working with the dogs without a lead, teaching them to walk next to her. Unless I am mixing them up.

I keep training sessions short. If I have a higher energy dog, I will train after I do a lot of play, running on his part, and less exertion on my part to release the energy. I train a loose lead and I train heeling. Loose lead means the dog can sniff and be a dog, but must keep the lead loose, heeling means the dog has to be at my side and sit when I stop. I will walk a dog on a loose lead, but we heel across streets.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:54 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Just type "loose leash walking" into youtube

Also I saw PetCo was having a FREE Loose Leash Walking seminar, here anyway.
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Old 10-31-2012, 06:47 PM   #40 (permalink)
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lol..it should be free. Treat training works well when it comes to teaching the dog what you acually want of it. The better relationship you have with the dog the more he wants to please you. However, he will test you and test frequently depending on the temperment especially a working dog. Love is not respect. Respect is gained by how you respond to those frequent tests.
Yes I can probably use a rope and improvise a choke, then use it to train the dog. But why not use a prong when the efficiency and training time is that much less, not to mention the amount of times I have to issue corrections to the dog. The prong, Choke, E collar whatever you want they are all tools. But as with all tools some are more efficient then others.
I can use a dime to turn a flat head screw, it will get the job done no problem. Should I then only use dimes and never a screw driver simply because the dime can do the job too??
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