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Old 10-03-2012, 04:22 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Okay, gonna say what nobody wants to hear.
So, what about the wolves that have come out of Yellowstone, gone into neighborhoods of Jackson homes and killed their pets? What about the wolves that have pulled down horses that were tied to their trailers while camping? Um, what about the wolves that are going into populated areas and killing animals?
The wolves did not stay in Yellowstone, they are following the herds leaving Yellowstone for winter and coming into towns and killing livestock... The wolves have decimated the elk/buffalo herds in Yellowstone, they no longer allow moose hunting because the wolves have killed them in the same area.
There is no possible way, except culling the packs to keep the population down. When the wolves were brought back into the yellowstone eco system, they brought Canadian wolves, not the same wolves that used to roam here. These are bigger, more aggressive wolves. They kill to kill, not just to eat.
Go ahead, blast away. Until you have gone hiking and have a wolf follow you from 20 yards away, step for step, until you have run into one while jogging on the trails, VERY close to town, until you have seen the damage they do to livestock, in their own pastures, close to the farm house, then maybe you will understand the need and reasoning behind killing them.
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:28 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Olivers mama View Post
APBT - No, I don't think you're in the minority, but if you are, I'm right there with you.

I have 2 problems with this story. (1) The wolves were there first. The cattle owner should've known of their presence & taken whatever precautions necessary. (2) 'Hunting' might have been 1 thing, but I have a problem using GPS & snipers dangling from a chopper. Kinda like "hunting" a sitting duck.

And again - Calif wastes money like it was TP. Why not spend a bit & relocate the wolves here, since the state wants them so badly? (They've been tracking a gray wolf for some time. But he's smart - he enters Calif, only to turn around & return home...even HE doesn't want to be here! )
Many of these places that is not true. The wolves have been gone for years. They have been re-introduced.

What is the difference how the bullet enters the body, whether it is a sport, where man is a mighty hunter, or whether it is out of a chopper? The end result is the wolf is dead, hopefully without much suffering. In my opinion, making a sport out of the killing, doesn't make the killing any more noble. The object is not to give men glory, but to protect livestock. So long as the method of the killing is not significantly more painful and drawn out, why should it make a difference? I don't get that.

Hunting is a sport and is a form of pleasure/entertainment, hiking being one with nature and all that, also a method of obtaining food, while thinning the herd. No problem with hunting. The object of hunting is not generally to eliminate a prey species. It is a one-sided sport/recreation. There is nothing recreational or sporting on the part of the beast that is hunted. I don't understand why people would feel it more acceptable for people to practice their sport/recreation to kill the wolves, than people just plain out killing them.
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:39 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Whoa grandma! Wyoming's situation is different from Washington State. No one is saying Big Bad Wolves shouldn't be killed. And - if you notice - most people here agree with you.

I'm just saying that maybe - possibly - there could've been alternatives. Whenever it's a cow -vs- a wild animal, we always side with Bessie. And Red Riding Hood.

selzer - my "hunting" comment is more in jest. IMO, hunting does not equal tracking the animal via GPS & in a chopper. Well, at least my dad never hunted that way. Here, they keep reporting it as "hunting". Which it was not. They put a device on the suspected ringleader. Then watch him move on a computer map. Then jump in a chopper & have a sniper shoot them. I'm glad the "controlled hunts" in my area aren't done that way. Wouldn't need "hunters", just 1 guy & his GPS tracker.

Anyway, I posted the story for it's information. Certainly nothing over which to argue. More for info purposes.
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:54 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Whoa grandma! Wyoming's situation is different from Washington State. No one is saying Big Bad Wolves shouldn't be killed. And - if you notice - most people here agree with you.

I'm just saying that maybe - possibly - there could've been alternatives. Whenever it's a cow -vs- a wild animal, we always side with Bessie. And Red Riding Hood.

selzer - my "hunting" comment is more in jest. IMO, hunting does not equal tracking the animal via GPS & in a chopper. Well, at least my dad never hunted that way. Here, they keep reporting it as "hunting". Which it was not. They put a device on the suspected ringleader. Then watch him move on a computer map. Then jump in a chopper & have a sniper shoot them. I'm glad the "controlled hunts" in my area aren't done that way. Wouldn't need "hunters", just 1 guy & his GPS tracker.

Anyway, I posted the story for it's information. Certainly nothing over which to argue. More for info purposes.
I have hunted, my dad is a hunter. Hunting is done many ways. Some hunt with dogs, some hunt with bird dogs. Some hunt with hounds. Some hunt with shot guns, some with rifles, some with bows and arrows. Some do it on foot. Others do it with vehicles. Hunting has been done with horses too. The fact that the hunting is not carried out in the fashion that you are accustomed does not mean it is not hunting. They still need to find them and shoot them. That is hunting. It is just not the type of hunting that you approve of. The end result is the same.

I would think that for people who love the wolves, the idea that people are actually getting a measure of pleasure out of killing the wolves would be worse.

When they need to thin the herds up in those areas in Ohio where they do not want to allow hunting, they go in at night with automatic rifles, snipers, and slaughter them. That ticks my dad off. Why not open a hunting season and sell a set number of licenses and let people go in and hunt them properly and use the meat, and perhaps take a trophy. He has a point as the meat is actually used that way. Other than that, I do not see that it makes a difference how a critter is shot and killed so long as it isn't done in order to satisfy someone who likes to torture critters and watch them suffer.
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:22 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Washington Wolf Packs - Wedge | Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife

A great read for those who are interested in the rest of the story.

There were steps taken to avoid the killing of the pack, which btw, are not the only pack located in that area. The hunting of livestock by this pack was also threatening the other packs who are utilizing natural prey for food.


Were non-lethal measures used to control predation by the Wedge Pack?

Yes. Several non-lethal measures have been taken at the Diamond M Ranch – both by the rancher and by WDFW – to control predation by wolves on livestock. In spring, WDFW also helped to install wolf-repelling “fladry” on a wire fence at a neighboring ranch where wolf sightings were also reported. Specific actions taken at the Diamond M Ranch include:
  • Calving areas have been located away from the region to make calves less vulnerable to predation.
  • Cows with calves were released onto the range later in the spring when they are larger and more natural prey is available to wolves.
  • The rancher now employs five cowboys or “range riders” to help monitor the herd.
  • WDFW has worked with USDA Wildlife Services staff to patrol range in mid-summer with the goal of driving any wolves away from the herd.
  • Injured livestock have been moved off the range to recover, reducing the risk of attack.
The state’s wolf plan states that these pro-active measures offer a “partial alternative to lethal control,” but that “lethal control of wolves may be necessary to resolve repeated wolf-livestock conflicts.”
I'm very pleased to see the use of GPS to single out the offending pack. It protects the remaining packs that are not creating a threat to the ranchers. The use of a helicopter is justified due to the vast amount of land covered. I am also pleased that they used sharp shooters or marksmen and not Dewey, Huey and Louie from the Ducksville ranch. This was a well thought out and planned process people.
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:28 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyominggrandma View Post
Okay, gonna say what nobody wants to hear.
So, what about the wolves that have come out of Yellowstone, gone into neighborhoods of Jackson homes and killed their pets? What about the wolves that have pulled down horses that were tied to their trailers while camping? Um, what about the wolves that are going into populated areas and killing animals?
The wolves did not stay in Yellowstone, they are following the herds leaving Yellowstone for winter and coming into towns and killing livestock... The wolves have decimated the elk/buffalo herds in Yellowstone, they no longer allow moose hunting because the wolves have killed them in the same area.
There is no possible way, except culling the packs to keep the population down. When the wolves were brought back into the yellowstone eco system, they brought Canadian wolves, not the same wolves that used to roam here. These are bigger, more aggressive wolves. They kill to kill, not just to eat.
Go ahead, blast away. Until you have gone hiking and have a wolf follow you from 20 yards away, step for step, until you have run into one while jogging on the trails, VERY close to town, until you have seen the damage they do to livestock, in their own pastures, close to the farm house, then maybe you will understand the need and reasoning behind killing them.
My friend in Idaho has the same complaints. He and others I know from the area (Washington state as well) insist that there were local packs before the reintroduction of the Canadian wolves. Those packs have since disappeared.
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:34 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I don't have to live with wolves, so I'm not judging.
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:55 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I don't have to live with wolves, so I'm not judging.
Our biggest wolf problem in this state is the politician.

Lilie - I appreciate the 'rest of the story' - Thank You very much!
But how did they know the wolf they GPS'd was the Bad Wolf? DNA? Paw print analysis? (Just kidding...)
I said earlier that I understand the WHY of what they did, but I don't have to like it.
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Old 10-03-2012, 05:58 PM   #29 (permalink)
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My friend in Idaho has the same complaints. He and others I know from the area (Washington state as well) insist that there were local packs before the reintroduction of the Canadian wolves. Those packs have since disappeared.
I live ten minutes from the Idaho border. I spend much of my time in the Panhandle and in Montana. There were no local packs here. There is much myth and ignorance, though. Also, I have friends that live outside of Jackson, WY. They've lived there for 16 years. Their experience and what they've heard about the wolves doesn't match Wyominggrandmas.
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:04 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olivers mama View Post
Our biggest wolf problem in this state is the politician.

Lilie - I appreciate the 'rest of the story' - Thank You very much!
But how did they know the wolf they GPS'd was the Bad Wolf? DNA? Paw print analysis? (Just kidding...)
I said earlier that I understand the WHY of what they did, but I don't have to like it.
Because going against the popular mood and killing wolves to make a handful of ranchers stop whining is such a politically sound decision. I remember a recent vice-presidential candidate that allowed this same thing to go on and got tons and tons of guff for it.
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