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Old 09-29-2012, 05:13 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I hear hunters whine about the wolves killing all the elk and moose, but where are the best places to hunt elk and moose? The same places that have the highest populations of wolves Alaska, British Columbia, and Alberta.
There's a reason for this correlation between wolves and healthy populations of elk and deer. They studied this in Yellowstone and found that the elk herds are actually healthier now that the wolves are back. The wolves mainly prey on the weak members of the herd, strengthening herds. They weed out the gene pool, resulting in more robust, healthy herds.
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Old 09-29-2012, 05:24 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The sad thing is, wolves were there before the cattle. By getting rid of wolves and moving in cows, the ones being displaced were wolves and the ones changing the nature of how things worked were humans. It seems a bit unfair to go after wolves, when they were just being wolves. Did they have proof that it was even the wolves doing it...? I've seen plenty of cases where "wolves" taking down cattle wound up being feral dogs, or companion dogs that decided that killing livestock was fun.

I do wish there were better ways of dealing with all of this than killing wolves. I don't know what ranchers do and don't try, but I'd like to believe that there was more than could have been done other than destroying predators we really need.
Throughout the history of the world, there has been survival of the fittest. One predator would come in and other predators would be edged out, and some died out. This has been happening long before humans existed.

Humans are predators. we move in, we put the land to our use, and raised herds of animals for meat and products.

The wolf was in direct competition for the land, the hunting, and the safety of livestock and were eliminated.

Society changed from a society that survived as much off of wild game as livestock and hunting decreased and grazing herds increased. It balanced out to a point.

Then people felt that hunting is terrible, awful, etc, and hunting decreased further as public opinions and laws went into place. The balance was shifted again as deer and other critters started to over-populate.

And instead of encouraging hunting, the idea to re-introduce the wolf in many places took hold.

The only thing is, which is easier to catch a deer or a steer?

I guess I am not of the opinion that the only animal that has no right to live should be humans. And, I like beef. Wolves are cool. I can see them at the zoo. I don't want them in my back yard, and if I owned livestock I wouldn't want them within a couple of hundred miles.
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Old 09-29-2012, 06:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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There's a reason for this correlation between wolves and healthy populations of elk and deer. They studied this in Yellowstone and found that the elk herds are actually healthier now that the wolves are back. The wolves mainly prey on the weak members of the herd, strengthening herds. They weed out the gene pool, resulting in more robust, healthy herds.
The return of wolves to Yellowstone has also helped beavers make a come back there as well.
Yellowstone National Park: Wolf Reintroduction Changes Ecosystem

In Northeast Washington, there is the Diamond, Smackout, Huckleberry, and Salmo packs (confirmed) and Boulder creek & Ruby creek (suspected). There are 2 other confirmed packs in the north & central Cascades. So while it sucks to lose the Wedge pack, it's nice to know they are making a comeback.
Washington Wolf Packs | Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife

Last edited by Nigel; 09-29-2012 at 06:04 PM.
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Old 10-01-2012, 09:45 AM   #14 (permalink)
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There's a reason for this correlation between wolves and healthy populations of elk and deer. They studied this in Yellowstone and found that the elk herds are actually healthier now that the wolves are back. The wolves mainly prey on the weak members of the herd, strengthening herds. They weed out the gene pool, resulting in more robust, healthy herds.
Not to mention the amount of damage deer and elk can do to the landscape, stripping trees etc. when their populations spin out of control Wolves are a vital part of our ecosystem, as are the sharks in our oceans. We're in huge trouble if we knock out top predators.

Very unfortunate.

I can understand taking out a problem pack, who's going after livestock, just not indiscriminate killings.
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Old 10-02-2012, 12:56 AM   #15 (permalink)
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The rancher took no measure to deter the wolves. He let his cattle get attacked so he could back the state into a corner and allowed the wolves to become habitual cattle killers.
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Old 10-03-2012, 01:01 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I'm probably of the minority here.. But I think every preventative measure should be taken before you go on a killing spree. Humans are intelligent enough to protect their cattle, we moved into THEIR home and sat easy meals in their living room. And now kill them for taking advantage of it.

I understand some farmers can't afford to put up barricades (such as acres of electric fencing), but there are cheaper, easier methods to cut way down on wolf killings..
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:41 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I'm not sure about the cattle that were killed by the Wedge pack, but a big part of the problem is that cattle are released to roam and graze through "our" national forests. These cattle defecate and trample the banks of what used to be nice trout streams. It is the cattle that are the invasive species competing with and displacing the native species. Allowing cattle in the national forests, the very place where wolves are supposed to recover, is a recipe for failure. I hear hunters whine about the wolves killing all the elk and moose, but where are the best places to hunt elk and moose? The same places that have the highest populations of wolves Alaska, British Columbia, and Alberta.
Agree with this. I used to live in the PNW and the cattle are everywhere.
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:58 PM   #18 (permalink)
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We are huge Wolf advocates. Our business (WolfBrook) is named after our love of wolves and their superior social structure. For my husband's birthday last week we adopted him a wolf from Wolf Park. I'm saying this just so it's clear how much we revere the wolf in our household. Having said that, I have been reading about this situation for a number of weeks and fully believe this was a viable solution. I'm not sure that is how I would go about it, but I don't know how likely it is you can catch the pack and euthanize them. There are many documented cases of wildlife specialists trying to "rehab" wolves that have taken to livestock as their prey of choice. This is generally considered a no win situation and is heartbreaking to say the least. I frequent the Wolf Park site (where my husband's adopted wolf Wotan lives ) and a few other well known wolf specialty centers and while they are all posting their sadness about this outcome I haven't seen any disagreement with the solution.
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:00 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I am also very pro-wolf. I hope that the proper measures where taken to try everything else first. I hope the people who dealt with this were professionals. I don't know enough about the situation to comment. There are other solutions to just killing them all and I agree that a proper introduction to wolves in an area can be healthy for the eco-system. God made nature a series of checks and balances, predator and prey. Man is the one who has messed with it. On the other hand, if you livestock is your livelihood, you need to protect it too. Its a difficult line to walk and the sad thing is it is usually the wolves who suffer.
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Old 10-03-2012, 04:13 PM   #20 (permalink)
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APBT - No, I don't think you're in the minority, but if you are, I'm right there with you.

I have 2 problems with this story. (1) The wolves were there first. The cattle owner should've known of their presence & taken whatever precautions necessary. (2) 'Hunting' might have been 1 thing, but I have a problem using GPS & snipers dangling from a chopper. Kinda like "hunting" a sitting duck.

And again - Calif wastes money like it was TP. Why not spend a bit & relocate the wolves here, since the state wants them so badly? (They've been tracking a gray wolf for some time. But he's smart - he enters Calif, only to turn around & return home...even HE doesn't want to be here! )
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