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Old 09-24-2012, 01:12 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:17 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Olivers mama View Post
I don't know where you got THAT idea - that you can't talk against cops? REALLY?? Have you read any of the cop-shoots-dog threads?

That's beside the point - I'm looking for answers. Not the typical "it's all the cops' fault' BS. I want something I can take to our local PD.
If you are looking at it from a perspective that LEOs can do no wrong, then maybe you can look at those threads and say people are bashing cops. But I really did not see it. If I said, being an LEO is a dangerous job, but there are other dangerous professions too -- someone takes offense at that? I personally have heard of more farmers getting seriously injured and killed than police officers, at least in my county. There are a lot of dangerous jobs out there, and suggesting that is somehow a dig on police officers, well just wow.

Not waiting for the jury to come back with a verdict to have an opinion is just fine -- unless it has to do with a police officer?

And, well, suggesting that a police officer over-reacted, or under-reacted, or made a bad decision, well that makes you a cop-hater. Police officers are humans, they make mistakes, sometimes they over-react, sometimes they under-react, sometimes they make bad decisions and you really do not have to be an LEO to have an opinion on that. And suggesting that ONE police officer made a mistake in this case, certainly isn't bashing the profession.
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:39 AM   #23 (permalink)
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All you are doing is restarting the entire thing, selzer.
As the OP in this thread said -

Quote:
That's beside the point - I'm looking for answers. Not the typical "it's all the cops' fault' BS. I want something I can take to our local PD.
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:41 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Selzer, come on - even Helen Keller could see all these threads turn into the pro-cops vs anti-cops.

I am not asking that we choose 1 or the other. I am asking for suggestions to take to those in charge to help rectify the situation. And I've already said that these incidents seem isolated here. When, in reality, they don't happen all that often.

What I am asking is: 1)What can we suggest to PDs to lower these incidents even more & 2)What can / should WE as dog owners be responsible for, in terms of protecting our dogs/home/family?

I don't believe cops are out shooting dogs at random. But I also believe J.Q.Public needs to be proactive. In other words, certain breeds make some peoples' hackles go up. GSDs are in that group. How come none of the "stories" listed here involve poodles? Or Shih Tsu's? They're always about Pitties, GSDs, Rotties, etc. (Altho I can say, from personal experience while a Vet Tech, I didn't fear the bigger breeds. More often than not, we "Red-Dotted" the cage tags of the Barking Slippers. Red Dot = Bites.)

I'm not saying cops do no wrong. I'm ASKING what can be done - in terms of training for cops AND dog owners - to lower the incidents even more. It may not happen very often, but I don't want the next incident to be at my house. I'm asking for input, for suggestions. Not mockery or belittlement.
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:50 AM   #25 (permalink)
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As a retired, 25 year sheriffs deputy/sergeant, I can offer one viewpoint.
Resource allocation: Where do you want your tax dollars spent? Oftentimes, training costs money that simply isn't available. Either it costs to bring someone in to conduct training or it requires overtime to personnel. In an environment where staff/programs are being cut, how items are prioritized is key.
Where I worked (MN) the demand for ongoing/continuing education for the following items exists: Firearms, use of force/control tactics, pursuit driving, legal updates, domestic violence, sexual assault, child abuse, mentally ill persons, elderly/dementia patients. This is just a sampling of what administration must provide training for.
I agree that handling of dogs is important, but where does it rank on the list of priorities?
Keep in mind, this is a community of "dog people".

As far as commenting on these threads, I left that drama behind when I went 10-7 for the last time.
A lot of the news stories are so poorly written, it's hard to know what really happened.
Maybe they should start teaching cops how to disarm a double amputee in a wheel chair from a pen before shooting him.
FOX News - Top Stories - Houston Cop Kills Double Amputee in Wheelchair

I am sorry... I do have a lot of respect for the law enforcement, heck I always wanted to be a cop myself. However, that doesn't change the fact that there are a heck of a lot of incompetent, trigger happy gunslingers out there and those are the cops we all have to worry about because you never know what they perceive as a threat and that's just scary.

You have the same incompetent people in the military, EMS, as Behaviorists, Dog Trainers... everywhere in the world, but they don't carry guns and have the authority to shoot or arrest you.
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:52 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
But I also believe J.Q.Public needs to be proactive. In other words, certain breeds make some peoples' hackles go up. GSDs are in that group. How come none of the "stories" listed here involve poodles? Or Shih Tsu's? They're always about Pitties, GSDs, Rotties, etc. (Altho I can say, from personal experience while a Vet Tech, I didn't fear the bigger breeds. More often than not, we "Red-Dotted" the cage tags of the Barking Slippers. Red Dot = Bites.)
Well there is something to the "OH, come on in, they don't bite", because I've dealt with it even before my ACO days!
I delivered pizza in my early 20s and I appreciated folks who kept their dogs put up, and if I asked "Does it bite", answered in the affirmative.

People do have a blind spot when it comes to their dogs, because the dog typically doesn't bite...the owner!

I think education is going to have to be multipronged.
I'd ask about doing a training seminar, on 2-3 different days in a department so overtime isn't having to be paid, and they aren't having to come in on their days off.
Make it a "public service announcement" type situation, even suggesting having a news story on it - kind of a "preemptive" training session.

I'd start by saying, "Not sure if you've noticed all the news stories lately about these dogs being shot, and was thinking perhaps we could come in and do a short training session". On the other end, ask about putting PSAs out on TV or whatever, and if officers saw citizens were working on prevention, maybe they'd work harder.

I can't imagine how many times criminals have "sicced" their dogs on officers, or at the very least, didn't stop the dogs at the door or whatever, so maybe that plays into the preemptive shootings that have taken place.
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:54 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Maybe they should start teaching cops how to disarm a double amputee in a wheel chair from a pen before shooting him.
FOX News - Top Stories - Houston Cop Kills Double Amputee in Wheelchair

I am sorry... I do have a lot of respect for the law enforcement, heck I always wanted to be a cop myself. However, that doesn't change the fact that there are a heck of a lot of incompetent, trigger happy gunslingers out there and those are the cops we all have to worry about because you never know what they perceive as a threat and that's just scary.

You have the same incompetent people in the military, EMS, as Behaviorists, Dog Trainers... everywhere in the world, but they don't carry guns and have the authority to shoot or arrest you.
With all due respect to you and this situation, this is really OFF TOPIC and will just succeed in taking this thread in a direction it wasn't meant to go.
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Old 09-24-2012, 02:01 AM   #28 (permalink)
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With all due respect to you and this situation, this is really OFF TOPIC and will just succeed in taking this thread in a direction it wasn't meant to go.
That was towards the training money and where it should go. Apparently there is a bigger need for training than just for "How not to shoot a dog".

It is what it is. They need training, lot's of it. Some stuff will be neglected. Question is, which training do you want to be neglected? The State is broke, departments are broke and have to fundraise to even afford K9 programs. Cops are laid off...

So what exactly do we expect if the money isn't there, it isn't there. Maybe just maybe, somebody should check at the root problem.

For example, 10 000 bucks for a green dog. That is ludicrous. Back in Germany, my breeder sells his dogs, to the German police for 1300 Euros because that is the budget they have.

So why in the world is the police paying that much money for a green dog? We wouldn't pay that much for a green dog... that is one of the issues and that money could be saved for training the cops.

I am not trying to take this topic to a certain term because I honestly believe there is a much bigger issue than just "cops shooting dogs" and you can find the same issue within the education system or health care system.
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Old 09-24-2012, 02:11 AM   #29 (permalink)
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You speak as if the system is broken and in some ways I'm sure it is.
The legal system period could stand some improvements, but in the situation you posted the link to, there's a legit reason the guy was shot, it's not lack of training, it's just how the situation played out.
I remember a few years ago where a mentally handicapped boy was shot in his yard because he had a toy gun that looked very real. The cops thought it was real, and when you saw it, you'd think that too. It wasn't pink plastic, it was black and looked real.

Would you say more training would have prevented that?

Sometimes things aren't "right" or "wrong", they just are.

PS. The details may be wrong on the shooting, it's been a few years. Just in case they are wrong.
But it happens, that's the main point.

Last edited by msvette2u; 09-24-2012 at 02:14 AM.
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Old 09-24-2012, 02:18 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I have no stigma against cops at all. I just disagree with shooting dogs, because I would always take a bite before shooting a dog. I'd rather end up in the hospital than wonder if that dog was just bluffing and I killed a very beloved family member for no reason, and because it would probably be easier than having to go through some sort of investigation. But that's just me.

My parent's friend have a very protective german shepherd that is a nasty resource guarder. On several occasions she has growled at me or attacked my dog, because she resource guards her owners. And she's just kind of crazy. One time she growled at me when I was half asleep in a chair. Another time when I was eating supper. Both times I was paying zero attention to her and was completely minding my own business. She's just plain unstable, and probably the only dog I'm afraid of. I make a point to stay away from her.

A few days ago we went to retrieve my dad's boat from his friend's acreage where this dog lives. We called first, and they put the dog away otherwise the dog would eat us since they weren't going to be home when we picked up the boat. We arrived there and the dog was put away and no one was home.

But while we were getting the boat, the son came home. They forgot to tell the son not to let the dog out and he had no idea we were there. So here we were on their property trying to attach my dad's boat to the truck when we see their german shepherd come around the corner. She went crazy and charged us. We didn't really know what to do, so we started making happy noises and saying "Hi puppy!!", and then we continued with what we were doing and pretended to be uninterested in the dog. Miraculously, she stopped before reaching us, briefly wagged her tail, and then left.

I thought if there was any dog in the world that was likely to bite me, it was for sure this one. And during the most likely scenario for her to bite, she didn't, even though I was positive she was going to. I would always take that chance instead of shooting the dog first.

I don't care if someone is a cop. I just never agree with shooting a dog that only had potential to bite, because the vast majority of dogs are all bark and not bite.

Personally I generally see very little cop bashing, but I see oodles of people misinterpreting people to be cop bashing when they are only bashing the cop's actions. Just because you disagree with what a cop did doesn't mean you hate cops. I think those threads are a good thing, because people are going to be a little more aware of what can happen and they can try to plan for it. I think it took me several cop-shooting-dog threads before I seriously sat down and thought up what I could do to prevent it.
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