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Old 09-23-2012, 10:24 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sabledog View Post
This has nothing to do with a "dark side" of IPO. This is just an abusive ******* to happens to train in IPO. This could have been any sport.
Exaclty!
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:27 PM   #42 (permalink)
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That's a very weird video. The editing is awful, and the strangest thing about it is that the sound isn't a real dog. I know this because for the past 8 months I can't watch a single thing with dog sounds in it without having my puppy bark. I played it 4 times in the past few days, and every time, not a peep out of him.

So then I got curious, and I googled Patrick Keil IPO, in discussions listing, and opened a few of the German pages, with the pages translated for me. Most of the talk is going on about how inhumane it is, but one person said that he got kicked out not because of the way he trains, but because of something else - some arguement? I had a hard time understanding because the computer is a poor translator, but something seems fishy to me. I think there's a good story behind this video, but we'll probably never get to hear it.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:41 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Blanketback View Post
That's a very weird video. The editing is awful, and the strangest thing about it is that the sound isn't a real dog. I know this because for the past 8 months I can't watch a single thing with dog sounds in it without having my puppy bark. I played it 4 times in the past few days, and every time, not a peep out of him.

So then I got curious, and I googled Patrick Keil IPO, in discussions listing, and opened a few of the German pages, with the pages translated for me. Most of the talk is going on about how inhumane it is, but one person said that he got kicked out not because of the way he trains, but because of something else - some arguement? I had a hard time understanding because the computer is a poor translator, but something seems fishy to me. I think there's a good story behind this video, but we'll probably never get to hear it.
I'll follow and post about it. If there is something, it'll be talked about on the German Forum.

From what I read, he got banned from his club in Juli 2012 because of his trainins methods. They did try to talk to him but he wouldn't change them and so they banned him because of his methods AND arguments.



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Stellungnahme zu der Affäre Keil Patrick
"Da wir diese Trainingsmethoden auch nicht dulden
und nach mehrmaliger Aussprache mit dem Hundeführer haben
wir daraus unsere Konsequenzen gezogen. Seit Juli 2012 ist
Herr Keil Patrick wegen seinen Trainingsmethoden und diversen
Meinungsverschiedenheiten nicht mehr in unserem Verein."
http://www.acpge.lu/

Last edited by Mrs.K; 09-23-2012 at 10:47 PM.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:54 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Please do, I would appreciate it. I'm a very skeptical person and something isn't sitting right with me about this. Even the poor quality - it's hard to see exactly what's going on. There's one point where you can see him whip the back of his ankle, which I guess is telling the dog the position he wants him in, and I guess the swoosh of the tiny whip helps to indicate? IDK, since this sport is way out of my league and this type of training as well. Someone said it, either in this thread or in one that I googled, that he didn't invent this type of training either.
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Old 09-24-2012, 10:08 AM   #45 (permalink)
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He needs that whip shoved where the sun don't shine That poor dog
With 9" nails on the end.
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Old 09-24-2012, 10:17 AM   #46 (permalink)
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I have no problem issuing a correction...but if I had to chase my dog down like that to get results I would put the dog away and think. 'How did I screw up so badly that had to happen'.

This x10000000!!!!!

I didn't watch the entire video and don't have sound at work so I can't comment on the video specifically but I've seen some training like this (and thankfully it always seems to be with dogs that will just take it and take it and take it....) and besides the obvious excessive force the two things that stand out are 1) the handler is getting angry and frustrated so the corrections no longer make any sense. The timing is bad, the corrections are excessive both in repetition and force, and you can tell that the handler is just plain angry; and 2) absolutely nothing gets accomplished other than the handler getting pissed and the dog getting even more loaded and now in a place of conflict where other problems happen because all that pressure has to get released somewhere....
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:12 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Just because the dog takes it and comes back doesn't mean they should have to!

You can kick a dog and it will come right back to you tail wagging.Does that mean he liked it? People pull stupid stunts like this training horses all the time, and the poor horse will keep on trying its heart out. Does not mean the animal is ok with the treatment! Some things will never change..humans can be so cruel!
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:35 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Zahnburg View Post
Allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment. This takes place in Luxemburg, which is a EU nation. To the best of my knowledge the use of e-collars and pinch collars is banned within the EU. Is it possible that this handler, being a law-abiding EU citizen, was forced to resort to such methods being that more humane and effective tools are illegal?
Hmmmmm... Very interesting and provocative!

There does seem to be a sort of race between two groups, One is using legislation. And the other is finding new way to circumvent the new laws. Most not as stupid and brutal as that video seeks to make the handler appear.

I'll be thinking a lot about this. Thanks.
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Old 09-29-2012, 01:39 AM   #49 (permalink)
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There is no ban of the Pinch Collar throughout the EU. There are countries where both is banned but the EU did not ban the pinch collar throughout the EU. It is still very much legal in Germany.

As for the E-collar. It's legal to sell, buy and keep it but it is illegal to use it.

As for Luxembour, I don't know but I can find out.
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Old 09-29-2012, 04:27 AM   #50 (permalink)
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I only watched half of it to know, but that does not look good.
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