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Old 09-21-2012, 12:50 PM   #31 (permalink)
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This topic has been difficult for me lately. I have thought a lot about this and it scares me. I don't crate because we have taught that being able to be out alone on the house while we are gone is a privillage. That and jasmine can open her crate. I want to start crating her again in the event someone comes into the house while we are gone but one I know she will get out and 2 I don't want her to think he is beig punished for something (she can make that correlation)
Also, if someone needed to come in and she was crated and she was growling and trying to escape the kennel would they shoot her in the kennel? I feel they would
If the came while she was out and no one was here I know she would be shot because she would growl
I do have signs on the front window and back sliding door that say caution area patrolled by german shepherd security but I don't think it would make a difference
How am I to protect my dog? Should I crate her and zip tie it shut?
I know this is an extreme over reaction, but I'm just not sure what to do and when thinking about all the ways this could happen, I see my dog dead
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Old 09-21-2012, 12:57 PM   #32 (permalink)
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It is still rare.

Check on your own communities. Go with a certain radius and a number of years. Research how many dogs have been killed by police in incidents like the previous three incidents.

I am sorry, I am not going to make a dog live in a crate whenever I am not right there, because 3 dogs out of 3 million dogs got shot while at home by a cop this year. We had an almost identical situation, thought the dog was chained in the front yard. Wrong address, cop shot the dog, then tried to cover it up, by cutting the chain -- witnesses. The cop was fired. That was years ago and about 30 miles away from me. I have not heard of ANY other cop-killed-my-dog-while-he-was-innocently-protecting-his-home here in over 30 years of living out here.

Cops, for the most part LIKE dogs.

When I was a teenager, I roamed a lot, and sometimes I had my mutt with me. She wasn't leashed, we were just bumming, she and I. She would steal cat food off of people's porches and would wait for me to get a chocolate donut from the 24 hour Lawson's to give her. (She lived to be 14+ before we put her down, inspite of Dad's and Purina dog food, chocolate donuts, and occasional stolen cat food.)

But anyway, a cop was driving through a parking lot, and I called to him, "Don't hit my dog!" And he was affronted, he said he wouldn't hit my dog.

My brother left his chow mix in his basement while he was on vacation, and I went over to feed it. Well he had a stack of mattresses down there, and the dog climbed up them and chewed through the window and was attacking (I don't think it actually bit her though) the high school principle's wife. The cops called my mom (small town, she was the clerk of the village at the time) and she told them to shoot the dog. He said he couldn't shoot the dog.

Cops really don't want to go around shooting dogs. Yes, there is the odd scumbag that might hate dogs, but he is in the minority. I bet this officer is getting a lot of guff from other officers for shooting that dog. And adding insult to injury that it was the wrong address.

No one has to sneak onto a property for a stolen ladder. They do not have to kill someone's dog for a stolen ladder. This guy is probably in trouble.

Maybe large departments have good systems for training cops, but here you can be 18 and work as an auxiliary officer with very little training, and yes, you do carry a gun. Scary. That may have changed since 20 some years ago when I was seventeen and working in my store at 2AM and the auxiliary snuck in and crept up on us. I told him he scared the bleep out of me, and he said I was lucky he didn't enter with his gun drawn.

Later that night he saw me riding my bike and asked me about my sister who was with me at the shop. I asked him if he was married and he told me he was only 18. I was thinking, OMG, they let you carry a gun??? But, they did then. And I am sure that dealing with people's pets was probably not something they dwelled upon with these part-time, sub-rookies. Leaving them to work the night shift here on their own though, that probably could go way bad. Most of the guys I see at night are regular officers now.

I am sorry this dog died. It was no fault of the owner. I don't know what should happen. They are investigating this, and my guess is that the officer will lose his job. My guess is that police work requires people use decent judgment. I am guessing within the first year, an officer's judgment is scrutinized and departments probably take the opportunity to prune the ranks of those who show problems in this area. Poor judgment can get him killed, and can get others killed.
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Old 09-21-2012, 12:59 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PatchonGSD View Post
lol huh?
I am talking about all the pre-cautions we have to take to keep our dogs "safe". I refuse to infringe on my dogs freedom because some mad man could enter OUR property and shoot our dogs.

I refuse to live in a place where I have to constantly fear that somebody could enter and shoot first and ask later.

Once you let that kind of fear impair your decision making, bad things can happen, bad decisions can be made. I let that kind of fear impair my judgement and I regret that decision for the rest of my life.

I lived here for not even half a year and my judgement was based off of horror stories that animal control can just walk into your house, seize all your dogs, pts aggressive dogs without much further ado and I will not let that ever happen again.

Am I scared that something like that could happen?
Yes, I am. That is why a friend of mine jumped into the car, drove 20 minutes in the middle of the night to crate the dogs before we called 911 to transport me to the hospital. But at the same time, I will not live in fear of somebody entering the house. There is a chance, especially if EMS is involved but otherwise, don't let fear rule your life.

Trust me, I speak from experience and my dog paid the price for that kind of fear.
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:04 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I am talking about all the pre-cautions we have to take to keep our dogs "safe". I refuse to infringe on my dogs freedom because some mad man could enter OUR property and shoot our dogs.

I refuse to live in a place where I have to constantly fear that somebody could enter and shoot first and ask later.

Once you let that kind of fear impair your decision making, bad things can happen, bad decisions can be made. I let that kind of fear impair my judgement and I regret that decision for the rest of my life.

I lived here for not even half a year and my judgement was based off of horror stories that animal control can just walk into your house, seize all your dogs, pts aggressive dogs without much further ado and I will not let that ever happen again.

Am I scared that something like that could happen?
Yes, I am. That is why a friend of mine jumped into the car, drove 20 minutes in the middle of the night to crate the dogs before we called 911 to transport me to the hospital. But at the same time, I will not live in fear of somebody entering the house. There is a chance, especially if EMS is involved but otherwise, don't let fear rule your life.

Trust me, I speak from experience and my dog paid the price for that kind of fear.
I agree.

I still fell horror of hearing of someone who broke into someone's house and took their puppy out of the crate and cut off all four paws. My dog is a sitting duck in a crate. There might be a couple of rouge cops out there, who will risk their jobs and kill a dog, but there are nutjobs out there, and they really aren't risking much of anything. My dogs might not be much safer in kennels, but I think they are more comfortable, and I think they are safer, at least from someone who wants to torture them, rather than just all out kill them. I would feel terrible if my dog was shot or poisoned and killed, but it is horror beyond thinking to imagine my dogs being tortured.
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:06 PM   #35 (permalink)
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As many public shootings as there's been lately, I have the ability to carry a gun and I had better not be stuck under a table or bench somewhere where there is a madman shooting people and I could have stopped them.
I'd regret to my dying day that I could have had my firearm and taken the nutjob out, if that happened.
Therefore, as often as practical, I have at least one on or near me.
Exactly.

This is my last off topic post on this but I know a lot of people tend to think that if you take away all the guns or limit them that there will be less crime.....well a criminal is a criminal is a criminal. There are many "lost, stolen and unregistered" guns out there for a criminal to get their hands on and still have.

If someone is crazy enough to use a gun for something evil, they are crazy enough and will use anything else they can if a gun is not readily available, ie: homemade bombs, knives, clubs....the possibilities are endless. Taking away a persons right to bear arms will only leave this country with innocent people who will have no way to defend themselves against that nut jobs who will always exist.

OK. I'm done.
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:08 PM   #36 (permalink)
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My husband is a medic.
I asked him what happens when he arrives and there's a dog barking and protecting it's owner, and he said he (or another medic or officer) removes the dog and then he can go about his work.
I don't think it's that common of an occurrence that there's an actually dangerous dog on a scene, and if there is one, it's not really common for a dog to be shot.

Think of it this way - every moment of every day there's officers and medics out there across the nation doing their duties, without shooting dogs. It's really not a common occurrence at all.
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:18 PM   #37 (permalink)
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My husband is a medic.
I asked him what happens when he arrives and there's a dog barking and protecting it's owner, and he said he (or another medic or officer) removes the dog and then he can go about his work.
I don't think it's that common of an occurrence that there's an actually dangerous dog on a scene, and if there is one, it's not really common for a dog to be shot.

Think of it this way - every moment of every day there's officers and medics out there across the nation doing their duties, without shooting dogs. It's really not a common occurrence at all.
We just went through Scene Safety in class and honestly, I am not surprised that so many dogs are shot. Fear is a huge factor in Scene Safety. There was one medic that got shot in 2009 and people are still talking about that medics should have bullet proof vests, that self-defense should be mandatory.

Now we are talking about a very rural area where you get your occasional bad calls, accidents etc. and I'm not trying to downplay what EMS does. There is a lot of stuff going on. However, most of the time, the most exciting thing might be a transport from the hospital to Syracuse at least when I spend the night out at the Squad nothing ever happens. I had three transports, one DOA, that's it so far.
Still, that incident is so fresh in the mind of EMS that it is talked about, a lot. Even though it was a single incident.

So we get it bashed into our head to NEVER, NEVER, NEVER enter a Scene when it isn't safe. If there is a barking dog, you call the cops, you don't enter!
As for me, I can tell the difference between a bluffing dog. My study partner has a lab. You'd think that dog is a killer and he will run up to your car, stand right infront of your door in a barking frenzy. First time I met that dog I knew he's a big bluffer, opened the door and told him to knock it off. He followed me to the house and stopped barking.

If that dog should ever do that with a cop, that dog would be shot, instantly.

Last edited by Mrs.K; 09-21-2012 at 01:21 PM.
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:20 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I just did a search on Atlanta for dogs shot by police. 10 in Atlanta alone since 2010, occurring more frequently in the last year. That was just on the first page of the search. It did not include Fulton County (county ATL is located in) nor any of the metro counties or cities. I know of 3 this year in the county I am in. I doubt ATL would be the only city of comparable size that would have numbers like this. So what may have been considered rare at one time is happening more often now.

Sure 10 in one city of thousands of dogs doesn't look like a lot. Out of those 10 how many died through lack of education on the owners and/or police? Multiply that by the full metro area - 13 counties and the multiple incorporated cities in them. Then if you really want to grow the numbers, how many large metro areas are there in the US?

Last edited by Twyla; 09-21-2012 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:20 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Off-Topic Warning: I'm with you guys. I have CCW. Been shooting since I was 6. Dad was a cop & taught us gun safety & usage early.
Even as a 'girl'. Calif is high-crime. But you can bet it'd be lower if it was more 'Old West', where guns were NOT concealed. What idiot would attempt to steal a purse or rape a woman carrying a gun that he can see?

OK - I'm done with off-topic, too!

Twyla - another good ideas you had, by looking up the stats. Think I'll do the same for our area. Altho lately, more bad guys are shooting our K9s while on duty...

Last edited by Olivers mama; 09-21-2012 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:21 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Here, they'd enter w/a barking dog but there'd also be fire personnel on scene (volunteer fd) and officers, either sheriff, state or municipal police.
And he's a rescuer (hubby) so he'd feel okay to enter, I know.

WA state is an open carry state, btw, but we don't usually open carry
I did open carry when we went hiking...as did hubby.
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