IMO Animal Abuse charges should be filed agained him - German Shepherd Dog Forums

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Old 09-20-2012, 08:14 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default IMO Animal Abuse charges should be filed agained him

CM trying to "rehabilitate" a resource guarder. The owners of the dog admitted in the tv show that they had hit the dog with a broom to try to solve the problem. I didn't see the show, though, just this clip.

Why do people idolize this guy. (I'd like to use a stronger word.)

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Old 09-20-2012, 08:24 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm not condoning him because I'm not a fan but I don't think he's any more responsible for the dog's condition than the owners. I don't know why he bothers with a show or why people glorify it. He gets called in my clueless owners who have basically trained and reinforced their dogs to do all manner of dangerous habits and then expect CM to fix it over night.
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:33 AM   #3 (permalink)
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When he pointed toward the dog and was commenting on the "relaxation" I was thinking to myself, no, the dog looks worried and cornered. Guess so!
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Old 09-20-2012, 08:47 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I'm curious, if you were in his position what would you do?

Abuse is a very strong word, did he hit the dog with a baseball bat or chain? Yes he kicked the dog but he had a large dog literally hanging off his hand and biting as hard as he could. That was a nasty bite yet once the dog stopped attacking him Cesar didn't do anything more then not back down. The dog has obviously been taught by the owners "if I'm aggressive I get what I want because they're scared of me." The dog was unsure because Cesar wasn't backing down even after the dog did it's worse. IMO what the dog did to Cesar was much worse then what Cesar did to the dog

I'm not saying that he was right 100% but I also didn't see anything over the top. Just my opinion
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:18 AM   #5 (permalink)
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The abuse is pushing the dog to have to bite him in the first place. The challenging and hard staring and hitting her that provoked the bite when she was clearly displaying calming and appeasment signals the whole time.

The are better ways to treat food aggression and they don't involve bullying the dog and using more aggression.

Here is a great second by second analysis of what Holly was really displaying: Canine Aggression Issues with Jim Crosby: Food Aggression and a Famous Trainer
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:35 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsdraven View Post
The abuse is pushing the dog to have to bite him in the first place.
I don't understand this, because the dog has such an incredibly low threshold. If someone was taunting a dog over and over until it lashed out, then I would completely agree. Cesar is challenging the dog, but why is this wrong?

In part of this segment Cesar says, "...you can't have this with a baby in the house." So the only real choices are either do something about the behavior or PTS.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:43 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Read that blog post that GSDRaven linked to. It breaks it down really well. I just read it - I would not call that reaction to a threat low threshold. I think that the dog stopped guarding food and was actually defending herself. Like the writer said, she didn't redirect on anyone or anything else.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:47 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:53 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blanketback View Post
I don't understand this, because the dog has such an incredibly low threshold. If someone was taunting a dog over and over until it lashed out, then I would completely agree. Cesar is challenging the dog, but why is this wrong?

In part of this segment Cesar says, "...you can't have this with a baby in the house." So the only real choices are either do something about the behavior or PTS.
He was taunting the dog. He was directly challenging her with his posture and staring. It's not like he walked past her bowl and she lunged. That was not a low threshold.

I do agree that the dog would likely not be safe to be eating loose with a baby crawling by but there are a million ways to manage and actually rehab that behavior without putting the dog in more conflict and further damaging the relationship she has with people and food.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:54 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsdraven View Post
The abuse is pushing the dog to have to bite him in the first place. The challenging and hard staring and hitting her that provoked the bite when she was clearly displaying calming and appeasment signals the whole time.

The are better ways to treat food aggression and they don't involve bullying the dog and using more aggression.

Here is a great second by second analysis of what Holly was really displaying: Canine Aggression Issues with Jim Crosby: Food Aggression and a Famous Trainer
So wait wait wait...any bite we will now say "the person made the dog bite! the person abused the dog to the point that the dog needed to bite him!"

If you call anything in that clip animal abuse...we'll be locking up anyone that touches a dog a little harder than what is acceptable by X person. His little hand prick? Really? Abuse? I'm not saying he's the only way to fix things...but he tries to fix things fast. Most times when the dog is aggressive like this the owner have a baby on the way and are 2 weeks away from rehoming...good luck rehoming that dog. So Cesar comes in and fixes things in a short amount of time. Most of the time those people don't have the option of doing NILIF for a year or two, and most likely don't have the ability to do so either.

I'm really surprised sometimes at how quickly people defend dogs on this forum. That dog had extremely low thresh holds. It was not a dog that a regular person could deal with without taking drastic measures. You guys realize that there are probably thousands of trainers/behaviorists in this country that would do much worse. How about the "dog boot-camp" places where you aren't allowed to see your dog for 2 weeks or know anything about the way they will be fixing your dog? I'm sure that if I watched any of you train I could find something in there that I could call abuse if I wanted to.
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