USDA/APHIS Proposal Against Breeders - Page 3 - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-24-2012, 07:09 PM   #21 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
onyx'girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SW, MI
Posts: 24,531
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdjack View Post
I do not breed and I do not consider myself political. However, I see this regulation negatively impacting breeders I respect and the type of dogs I cherish. Thus, I felt compelled to comment in opposition to this regulation. It was easy and did not take much time. Hint, hint!
Thank you!
We~ who do not breed, yet want good dogs from good breeders are the ones that need to speak up!
Would you be willing to share what you wrote as an example(not that anyone should do a copy/paste-but use their own words/thoughts) so others can do the same....see how easy it was?
__________________
Jane~
Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Karlo
onyx'girl is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 06-24-2012, 07:49 PM   #22 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 139
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by onyx'girl View Post
Thank you!
We~ who do not breed, yet want good dogs from good breeders are the ones that need to speak up!
Would you be willing to share what you wrote as an example(not that anyone should do a copy/paste-but use their own words/thoughts) so others can do the same....see how easy it was?
Sure. I borrowed from others in this thread, in particular Anne's and Chris Wild's posts. In fact, it was Anne's post in the Schutzhund forum that caused me to post (I do not even check this subforum). Certainly not perfect, but most importantly, another voice in opposition. Here goes:

I am a responsible dog owner and I am OPPOSED to this regulation. This regulation will impose undue hardship on the very people who are doing things right. Many, if not most, excellent breeders breed on a small scale and raise puppies in their homes with family, as family. The regulations are so onerous that no small scale, hobby breeder would be willing and/or able to comply with these regulations. The exemptions are far too narrow. The limit on four breeding females has no bearing in reality. It often takes years to determine if a dog is suitable for breeding (testing, titling, health checks which cannot be obtained until two years old). Thus, good breeders who are focused on building or maintaining a bloodline which can be of use and assistance to society often will hold more than one dog back from a breeding to determine if it will turn out to be a dog worthy of breeding. Many do not make the cut and are not bred, but the regulation would effectively punish these breeders for going the extra mile. Moreover, the requirement that a buyer enter the breeder’s home/place of business ignores modern communications and modern commerce. Many small breeders of working dogs sell their dogs across the county and internationally based upon these modern communication. In sum, I am OPPOSED to this regulation as it will harm good breeders and ultimately limit the availability of good, sound dogs.
jmdjack is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-24-2012, 10:08 PM   #23 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 869
Default

If you want to see this type of ill conceived regulation end, you have to propose your own. We are constantly reacting to this type of stuff but we need to act offensively. We need to get out in front of these issues and go to the legislators with our ideas. If we don't do that we will continue to get blindsided by this nonsense.
Fast is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-24-2012, 10:20 PM   #24 (permalink)
"I like Daffy" Moderator
 
Andaka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: New Douglas, IL ( near St. Louis)
Posts: 3,260
Default

Those of you who live in the same state can get together and start a federation of people opposed to stupid dog laws. I belong to the Illinois Federation of Dog Clubs and Owners (illinoisfederationdogclubs&owners). Most of the meeting are done on the internet (we do have two in-person meetings at dog shows). that way you have a combined voice not only for national items such as this, but also for local regulations that you would like to change.
__________________
Daphne and the Gang at Andaka
Where Beauty and Brains Come Together
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/sear...n_shepherd_dog
Home of Ch Doll; U-CDx Jag CDX GN RE NAP NJP OA AXJ(ch ptd); and Ch. Fisher (Mr. Evil)
At the Bridge: Ch Kahla CD; Ch Keno UD HSAs OA; Ch Kizzy HSAs RE; Ch Tag CD RAE2; Ch Pharra; Bee PT; Ch Natty; Ch Red the Dachshund
Andaka is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-24-2012, 11:11 PM   #25 (permalink)
Moderator
 
gagsd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: georgia
Posts: 4,262
Default

I just received this email:

Feel free to forward.

Perhaps I can weigh in here. I am a member of the ASCA legislative*committee and I have been living and breathing this stuff for over a month*now.
First of all, sellers of working dogs are theoretically exempt from having*to be USDA licensed, but that exemption really only worked because the*other pups from the litter who washed out as working dogs were generally*sold as pets directly to the public and the breeder still was exempt from
having to be USDA licensed under what was known as the "retail pet store"*exemption. If this rule change goes through it is very likely that a
breeder of working dogs, if they do not want to become USDA compliant - 164*pages of rules and regulations that will insure that the puppy they produce*will not have had the early learning experiences that we have come to find*invaluable to a successful working career - then that breeder will have to*go back to the practices common 40 or 50 years ago. * All the washouts were*pretty much euthanized back then.* Before the advent of agility and the*other highly competitive dog sports we have now, there were no homes for*the drivey dogs that didn't make the cut.
USDA, in various reported telephone conversations, has no clue how they are*going to go forward administering that particular exemption.
Basically the change they are making is to the definition of retail pet*store. Under the Animal Welfare Act, USDA has no mandate to inspect or
license retail pet stores. The current USDA definition of retail pet store*is anyone who sells an animal directly to the public, without an*intermediary. So all breeders who sell their own puppies to the ultimate*owner have been retail pet stores. There is some other stuff in there, but
this is the critical part.
USDA claims to have complaints from people who purchased puppies over the*internet and then found the puppies to have problems - too young, sick, not
as represented - whatever. USDA does not appear to have done any research*into whether this is an actual problem. Rather, based probably on urging
from various animal rights contingents, they have used this as an excuse to*change the definition of retail pet store to only those places where each
buyer visits the actual property at least once during each transaction.
They claim that this will now allow them to oversee "internet sellers".
(This by the way is the new AR buzzword, soon to supplant "puppy mill".)
They are keeping an exemption for breeders who have 4 (changing that from 3*in the current regulations) or fewer "breeding females" (an undefined term*but Dr. Rushin of USDA has stated that their current working definition is
"females capable of being bred") and who sell *only* the offspring of those*females.

The effects of this rule change are that EVERY dog breeder will have to be*USDA compliant unless they sell ONLY to people who physically come to their
property OR they maintain fewer than 4 breeding females AND they never sell*a dog not born and raised on their property. Any other circumstance of a*sale and they must be USDA licensed, all dogs must be kenneled, puppies*cannot interact in a family environment or with adult dogs other than their*mother, and a whole host of other requirements (164 pages actually,*although some of them address elephant enclosures and dolphin pools).

To understand why this is a bad thing, you have to understand how small*breeders operate. Most of them have websites. Most of them sell at least
some of their puppies to people who found them through their website. Most*of them have, at least once, not required a buyer to come to their homes to*pick up the puppy. Maybe the puppy was shipped, maybe they met at a show,*maybe they met halfway between their homes, maybe they arranged transport*through mutual friends - hundreds of different ways that could occur. If
they only have 4 intact females on their property, they're still okay. But*most small breeders have also done things like taken a puppy in lieu of a
stud fee, or taken back a pick puppy as part of a sale agreement on a bitch*they sold, or fostered a rescue dog, or taken in dogs from a breeder friend
who died or became disabled. If that small breeder sells any of the dogs*in the previous sentence, then all buyers of all dogs must always come to*the breeder's property or else the breeder must be USDA licensed.

If you stop to really think through the consequences, you will see that
this is pretty much going to stop the way many people choose to manage
their dogs and their lives. It will impact breeding decisions, sales*contracts, availability for buyers, breed rescue operations, and so much*more.

This rule change has not been properly researched by USDA. There has been*no valid cost/benefit analysis done - which is required by law before a
major rule can be implemented. There has been no valid study of whether*the problem it is supposed to address even exists.

Please think about how this rule change will affect you, the decisions you*will make about your dogs now and your future working partners, and then
comment on the USDA site....*
Susan Beals
__________________
----Mary
von den Thermalquellen
on Facebook
-and- on the web

Last edited by gagsd; 06-24-2012 at 11:18 PM.
gagsd is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2012, 02:05 PM   #26 (permalink)
Administrator & LOTR Addict
 
lhczth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 15,692
Default

Done. How many times can we comment? They limit the size of the comment and I had to cut my thoughts down dramtically.
__________________
Lisa Clark
Zu Treuen Händen Working German Shepherd Dogs
Vala SchH3 AWD1 FH2 CGC B/HOT, SG1 Deja IPO3 AWD1 KKL1 B/HOT, SG Elena BH AD CGC B/HOT, LB (the ugly little sable) B/HOT, Donovan IPO1 TR2 AD, and gone but not forgotten, Nike SchH1 OB1 TR3 AD CGC HOT, Treue SchH3 CD CGC HOT




lhczth is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-26-2012, 09:44 PM   #27 (permalink)
Master Member
 
guitarest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Gulfport, Mississippi
Posts: 871
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Wild View Post
This website does and EXCELLENT job of outlining the new proposal and how it would have a serious negative impact on the good breeders of every breed.

USDA/APHIS Proposed Regulations Affecting Dog Breeders


Most good breeders are not going to be willing to become USDA licensed, as doing so would not only present an undue hardship but mean that much of what makes them good breeders would not longer be allowed. If this goes through, most would be forced to either go out of business or opperate "illegally". Which in turn would severely limit the ability of customers to obtain good dogs. This affects everyone, so please pass this on.

This government site is collecting the thoughts of the people, and open for comments through the middle of next month.

http://www.regulations.gov/#%21documentDetail;D=APHIS-2011-0003-0001
But it would have a very positive effect on all the puppy mills and backyard breeder puppymills. Go through the USDA get your license and your all good. I have a friend who is a well established breeder and she is State inspected and USDA; if she can do it so can everyone else. I guess it depends on how legit you really want to be. Rise about the puppymills or have the same inspection standards as them.
__________________
Jocko

King CKC GSD (he shall always be remembered)
Willie Collie Mix 7 yrs old
Sarge White GSD 7 yrs old
Blitz Von Vormund AKC DN28154--- 2 yr old
guitarest is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-26-2012, 09:47 PM   #28 (permalink)
Master Member
 
guitarest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Gulfport, Mississippi
Posts: 871
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andaka View Post
Those of you who live in the same state can get together and start a federation of people opposed to stupid dog laws. I belong to the Illinois Federation of Dog Clubs and Owners (illinoisfederationdogclubs&owners). Most of the meeting are done on the internet (we do have two in-person meetings at dog shows). that way you have a combined voice not only for national items such as this, but also for local regulations that you would like to change.
Nothing stupid about these laws; they need them. For every legit breeder who there are many here; there are 100's of back yard puppy mills/breeders who do not care about their product or anything other than the money.

Suck it up and become legit.
__________________
Jocko

King CKC GSD (he shall always be remembered)
Willie Collie Mix 7 yrs old
Sarge White GSD 7 yrs old
Blitz Von Vormund AKC DN28154--- 2 yr old
guitarest is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-26-2012, 09:47 PM   #29 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
onyx'girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SW, MI
Posts: 24,531
Default

Ummmm..NO. The millers are already USDA regulated and look where they are. Who wants to keep their dogs out in kennels 24/7?
Rescues will be affected by this as well. Do some more reading and you will see that this bill is a huge detriment to the responsible hobby breeders. Where will you get your next dog?
__________________
Jane~
Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Karlo
onyx'girl is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-26-2012, 09:48 PM   #30 (permalink)
Master Member
 
guitarest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Gulfport, Mississippi
Posts: 871
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by onyx'girl View Post
Thank you!
We~ who do not breed, yet want good dogs from good breeders are the ones that need to speak up!
Would you be willing to share what you wrote as an example(not that anyone should do a copy/paste-but use their own words/thoughts) so others can do the same....see how easy it was?
A good breeder should support this.
__________________
Jocko

King CKC GSD (he shall always be remembered)
Willie Collie Mix 7 yrs old
Sarge White GSD 7 yrs old
Blitz Von Vormund AKC DN28154--- 2 yr old
guitarest is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:47 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset Hound Forum Doberman Forum Golden Retriever Forum Beagle Forum
Boxer Forum Dog Forum Pit Bull Forum Poodle Forum
Bulldog Forum Fish Forum Havanese Forum Maltese Forum
Cat Forum German Shepherd Forum Labradoodle Forum Yorkie Forum Hedgehog Forum
Chihuahua Forum Retriever Breeds Cichlid Forum Dart Frog Forum Mice Breeder Forum