Eagles’ Vick comes full circle with $100M deal

[Lucy Dog]

Originally Posted by kr16

If madoff didn't get caught, most of those people who knew something was wrong and all boasted how much money they were making, while others weren't, would have been happy. Dont get me wrong, that doesnt make it right at all. Not sure if any of you knew madoff clients, I did and they all were greedy, arrogant and most of them dumb. The way it was all presented to get in with him was so shady. I said no thank you, seems suspicious.

You can't blame the victims of madoffs scam for what happened. They were just rich people and institutions trying to make more money off the money they already had. Whether you knew a few of his investors that were greedy and arrogant is completely irrelevant. You can't generalize a group of thousands of investors based on a few.

As for how to invest with him, I can't speak for his hedge fund specifically, but with most hedge funds you typically have to have a certain amount of money (at least $1 mil to initially invest, sometimes even more) or you need to specifically know him or people within the fund - family, friends, business associates, etc).

Hedge funds don't advertise or just let anyone invest. There are strict rules on who can invest and the minimum amount they need to invest. Most of the time they're locked up for years without the possibility to pull there money out even if they wanted to. Most average or even rich people don't even have a percentage of the minimum amount to invest and get involved. These were family, friends, and people he had been working with for years that he screwed over. It's sick what he did - it takes a complete sociopath.

[DFrost]

As I read the many hateful posts about Vick and others, I'm surprised to be in the company of so many faultless and perfect people. I've made a few mistakes in my life. Almost makes me uncomfortable to be among so many great folk. It's hard to tell what the cut-off is when something is forgivable or damns you forever. One of these is ok, two is too many, three and good golly miss molly. It's good to see the compassion and mercy most have as well. Glad that a human is injured and hoping for even more severe injuries. Yep, indeed, a proud moment indeed.

DFrost

[Lucy Dog]

Originally Posted by DFrost

As I read the many hateful posts about Vick and others, I'm surprised to be in the company of so many faultless and perfect people. I've made a few mistakes in my life. Almost makes me uncomfortable to be among so many great folk. It's hard to tell what the cut-off is when something is forgivable or damns you forever. One of these is ok, two is too many, three and good golly miss molly. It's good to see the compassion and mercy most have as well. Glad that a human is injured and hoping for even more severe injuries. Yep, indeed, a proud moment indeed.

DFrost

Lets say I had a big dog fighting ring going. Just as big as Michael Vicks with just as much money flowing as his did.

Some of these dogs need to be trained, right? I'm walking down the street and I see your dog unattended to in the backyard. My dogs need a bait dog to give him that taste of blood, so i take the dog out of your yard, and bring him to my home.

At my house, I muzzle your dog so he had no possible way of defending himself and unleash a few of my prized fighters, one at a time. Each dog ripping apart your dog more and more until it dies a slow and painful death.

Keep in mind this is your dog this is happening to... not a random one you have no emotional ties to. I go away for a little time because I was caught, but you're still missing your dog and you know exactly how it died. Do you forgive me because I said I'm sorry?

[dogless]

I don't believe for a second he is sorry about what he did, that is what bothers me. He blames it all on his upbringing.

When I was a kid, maybe 10 years old, I took by brothers bb gun and killed a bird in our back yard, because I wanted to see if I could do it. I actually hit and killed it. As it fell from the tree branch, bouncing off the other branches till it hit the ground, I stood horrified at what I did. That was more then 30 years ago and I still feel immense guilt for that senseless killing.

If Vick felt a minute fraction of the remorse that I felt over killing one little robbin, instantly, not beating it to death, then maybe I could forgive him a little, but that will never happen, so forgiveness will never happen either.

Originally Posted by DFrost

As I read the many hateful posts about Vick and others, I'm surprised to be in the company of so many faultless and perfect people. I've made a few mistakes in my life. Almost makes me uncomfortable to be among so many great folk. It's hard to tell what the cut-off is when something is forgivable or damns you forever. One of these is ok, two is too many, three and good golly miss molly. It's good to see the compassion and mercy most have as well. Glad that a human is injured and hoping for even more severe injuries. Yep, indeed, a proud moment indeed.

DFrost

[Lucy Dog]

I'm all for forgiveness and compassion. I know as much as anyone that no one on this planet is perfect... not one single person.

As some people mentioned before, I don't agree that if you commit a felony that you should be banned for life from a professional sport, but it really depends on the felony. It depends on your history. There are a lot of variables when deciding punishment... this is why we have a commissioner for each league to decide the punishment for the crime. This is why we have a court and legal system.

I also think there are certain things you do in life that there's no forgiveness for. Murder, rape, or really any kind of serious violent crimes including the torture and execution of innocent dogs. To me, there's no coming back from that... first offense or not. Again, that's just my opinion, take it for what it's worth.

[sit,stay]

Originally Posted by dogless

When I was a kid, maybe 10 years old, I took by brothers bb gun and killed a bird in our back yard, because I wanted to see if I could do it. I actually hit and killed it. As it fell from the tree branch, bouncing off the other branches till it hit the ground, I stood horrified at what I did. That was more then 30 years ago and I still feel immense guilt for that senseless killing.

If Vick felt a minute fraction of the remorse that I felt over killing one little robbin, instantly, not beating it to death, then maybe I could forgive him a little, but that will never happen, so forgiveness will never happen either.

Well, upbringing and cultural influence does play a part, a huge part, in how we see animals.

Lets take a look at the scenario outlined above. Except we'll add in an adult father figure now witnessing the whole bird killing incident. How would your impression of the incident change if a man that you look up to praised you like crazy for killing the bird? And everywhere you looked, there were other boys and men also out killing birds and they get praised as well.

What if you express remorse for the bird killing and you get ridiculed for feeling that way? Growing up in a ghetto is no picnic, and the strong really do inherit the earth. There is no room for weakness and to express an aversion to a cultural norm would be seen as a huge sign of weakness. I have seen first hand how dogs are treated in the ghetto.

The saying "You do better when you know better" should be front and center in any discussion of Michael Vick. The measure of the man should be what he does with his life from now on, now that he knows better. It is entirely possible that, given all his cultural influences growing up and as a young man, that he didn't know any better.
Sheilah

[DFrost]

Originally Posted by Lucy Dog

I'm all for forgiveness and compassion. I know as much as anyone that no one on this planet is perfect... not one single person.

I see that. The compassion just overflows from your post. So you're telling me, Micheal Vick stole a dog from your yard and fed it to his fighters?

Never mind. You already said you were all for forgiveness and compassion. I forgot.

DFrost

[DFrost]

Originally Posted by dogless

I don't believe for a second he is sorry about what he did, that is what bothers me. He blames it all on his upbringing.

Your sorry, but he's not, right? I wish I had your insight.

DFrost

[Jack's Dad]

Originally Posted by DFrost

As I read the many hateful posts about Vick and others, I'm surprised to be in the company of so many faultless and perfect people. I've made a few mistakes in my life. Almost makes me uncomfortable to be among so many great folk. It's hard to tell what the cut-off is when something is forgivable or damns you forever. One of these is ok, two is too many, three and good golly miss molly. It's good to see the compassion and mercy most have as well. Glad that a human is injured and hoping for even more severe injuries. Yep, indeed, a proud moment indeed.

DFrost

Thanks DFrost.
I didn't touch this thread because I'm not used to this kind of hatred.
This is strictly my opinion but people who carry this much hatred will be the ones who suffer in the long run.
I don't condone anything Vick did but as sit,stay said unless you are born into a culture like some in this and other countries you just don't understand. I wasn't born into that culture but have friends who were and since they were raised that way until they grew older and became more educated they didn't see some of this stuff as such a big deal. May sound sick to some. These things happen all over this country.
How did that go "before you accuse critisize and abuse walk a mile in my shoes". And I'm not talking about me personally.

[kr16]

Originally Posted by Lucy Dog

You can't blame the victims of madoffs scam for what happened. They were just rich people and institutions trying to make more money off the money they already had. Whether you knew a few of his investors that were greedy and arrogant is completely irrelevant. You can't generalize a group of thousands of investors based on a few.

As for how to invest with him, I can't speak for his hedge fund specifically, but with most hedge funds you typically have to have a certain amount of money (at least $1 mil to initially invest, sometimes even more) or you need to specifically know him or people within the fund - family, friends, business associates, etc).

Hedge funds don't advertise or just let anyone invest. There are strict rules on who can invest and the minimum amount they need to invest. Most of the time they're locked up for years without the possibility to pull there money out even if they wanted to. Most average or even rich people don't even have a percentage of the minimum amount to invest and get involved. These were family, friends, and people he had been working with for years that he screwed over. It's sick what he did - it takes a complete sociopath.

I see what your saying from your point but if you knew some of the victims, ask them how it went down. They were told it was a hush hush secret thing. It was as shady as you can get. They tried to get my family in on it. I also dealt with some of them also as I sell annuities and you should have heard them. I always told them its to good to be true. Im not saying it was right at all what he did, it was horrible. People do need to take responsibility sometimes for these things also. Look at the list of who was on their

I feel for them, dont get me wrong my best friends dad at 80 years of age lost everything. But keep in mind some of them got huge money also through this. I did say he should be shot for what he did.