Oakland Police Shoot Old Arthritic Lab

[Lexi]

Ok, normally I don't get myself worked up by what gets posted on this forum. But this thread is not taking a few facts into account, and some of the downright ignorant comments posted by a lot of you are making me feel like coming out of my lurker status.

I have a few months short of 13 years in the business. When I go on an alarm sounding, it is a priority of dispatch to tell us the pertinent details of the location we are responding to. They will tell us where the motion is coming from (such as a particular door opening or an interior motion, glass breakage, etc.). They will also let us know if there is someone on the premises without proper code. They also advise us if there is/are dog(s) in the building. Sometimes, they will even warn us that the dog is aggressive or tell us the breed.

I am assuming that the owners of Gloria would have made mention of her to the alarm company. Whether or not the alarm dispatcher relayed the information of her presence to the officers responding, or if the police dispatcher told the officers that she would be in the house is unknown. If I know that there is a dog inside of a residence that I am checking and I find an open door, depending on how the dog is reacting to me, I may or may not go in. There are plenty of times that I have been confronted at the door by an angry dog (or two) and simply locked the door and advised the alarm company as to what my findings were. I'm not going in at that point. If I find somewhere on the house that indicates forced entry has been made and there are dogs inside, myself and other officers will set up a perimeter until an owner can respond to contain/control their dogs and a proper search can be made. It is our number one priority when dealing with an aggressive dog to NOT get bit by said dog.

The officers responding in this instance may not have been aware of Gloria's presence, like I said earlier. Poor Gloria may have been taken by surprise when the officers suddenly appeared in her territory and she acted appropriately and was probably afraid and felt that she was defending herself. I know that you think that a dog with arthritis can't move quickly, but let me tell you when adreniline is in play they move FAST. I have an 11 year old senior with terrible arthritis, and I have seen him run at top speed to "fence fight" with a neighborhood dog that was coming up to taunt him at our back fence. You would never guess that my creaky senior could move that fast if you saw him on a daily basis, but he did and can under the proper circumstances.

By the time the officers and Gloria were confronting each other, there was no time for any of them (in their minds) to do anything but react. As someone else said, the officers already more than likely had their guns in their hands and, if forced to defend yourself with a threat (a dog bite) you will automatically eliminate that thread. It is by far not the way I would have like the scenario to have played out, but under the circumstances, I feel that the officers were more than likely justified in shooting her, ESPECIALLY if they didn't know that she was in the home. Even if they did know that she was in the house, I can't see where they will really be found at fault for shooting her. It is very sad that the family lost her in this way, but I'm sorry, the officers WERE doing their jobs.

Put yourself in their shoes during this, please, I ask you....you're checking a door....you find it unlocked. You call out and an assist officer or two goes in with you. You don't know if there is anyone inside the house, and all of your senses are on alert. You come around the corner and you're confronted by an aggressive dog, who by all intents and purposes wants to bite you. Would you instantly asses and see that a barking, lunging, teeth flashing dog moving towards you was "just a harmless senior" or would you defend yourself from the threat? If you were searching a house and a dog was running up to you to BITE YOU, would you reholster the gun in your hand or shoot?

Also, to the knee jerk reaction poster (I believe it was tatiana?) who said that they should "just shoot" the police who came on their property and started acting aggressively, think about this. If you lived in my town, and you were in danger, and I had to risk my life to protect and help you....I would do it, with no hesitation at all. Even if it meant that I wouldn't be going home that night. Peace.

[GSDolch]

Originally Posted by DFrost

Sometimes, there just isn't anything to say.

DFrost

agree'd

[Mrs.K]

By the time the officers and Gloria were confronting each other, there was no time for any of them (in their minds) to do anything but react. As someone else said, the officers already more than likely had their guns in their hands and, if forced to defend yourself with a threat (a dog bite) you will automatically eliminate that thread. It is by far not the way I would have like the scenario to have played out, but under the circumstances, I feel that the officers were more than likely justified in shooting her, ESPECIALLY if they didn't know that she was in the home. Even if they did know that she was in the house, I can't see where they will really be found at fault for shooting her. It is very sad that the family lost her in this way, but I'm sorry, the officers WERE doing their jobs.

Put yourself in their shoes during this, please, I ask you....you're checking a door....you find it unlocked. You call out and an assist officer or two goes in with you. You don't know if there is anyone inside the house, and all of your senses are on alert. You come around the corner and you're confronted by an aggressive dog, who by all intents and purposes wants to bite you. Would you instantly asses and see that a barking, lunging, teeth flashing dog moving towards you was "just a harmless senior" or would you defend yourself from the threat? If you were searching a house and a dog was running up to you to BITE YOU, would you reholster the gun in your hand or shoot?

I still don't buy it.

Why is it that in the US all they can do is to shoot while other countries are able to use a different force and they don't even come close to the numbers of shot dogs as in the US.

We are talking about a family pet here. I don't want to come home one day and find my dogs shot just because some cop felt threatened and I can't even do anything about it.

Think about a Schutzhund dog. It's not only that these dogs are family members but some of those dogs are worth more than tenthousand dollars. You really think they'll pay for that kind of damage?

And whats even worse is that you can't even let your dog roam freely in your OWN **** HOUSE because you have to fear that a cop could come by and shoot your dog?

What kind of world is that? Do you really want to live in CONSTANT FEAR that something COULD happen?
That the alarm could go off? That you have to constantly think about the fact that a cop could come in and feel threatened?

WTF. It's your house! Your property and nobody should have the right to simply shoot YOUR PROPERTY in YOUR HOUSE just because they feel threatened.

[kiwilrdg]

If I didn't want the police to be called to my house and enter the house I would not install a burgular alarm. If I were using a burgular alarm I would ensure the dogs were in crates or otherwise contained from the rest of the house because if the alarm goes off the police have evidence of a burgulary being in process.

Don't call the cops unless you want the cops to come. A burgular alarm is a way to call the cops.

[Linzi]

This was a false burglar alarm call,not a 911 call.Sorry but after reading the dog's owner's report of the incident,the police were wrong.I have put the link to her story below.
Answering alarm, Oakland police kill family dog - SFGate

[JonnyRico]

I'm pretty sure the Officer didn't want to shoot the dog. He had to make a split second decision. Unless you wear the badge and are put in that situation... you really have no idea how stressful the job can be. It's just a very unfortunate incident. I feel bad for the dog and her family, but hold no blame towards the officer.

... Just my thoughts ...

[BayouBaby]

Originally Posted by Lexi

Ok, normally I don't get myself worked up by what gets posted on this forum. But this thread is not taking a few facts into account, and some of the downright ignorant comments posted by a lot of you are making me feel like coming out of my lurker status.

I have a few months short of 13 years in the business. When I go on an alarm sounding, it is a priority of dispatch to tell us the pertinent details of the location we are responding to. They will tell us where the motion is coming from (such as a particular door opening or an interior motion, glass breakage, etc.). They will also let us know if there is someone on the premises without proper code. They also advise us if there is/are dog(s) in the building. Sometimes, they will even warn us that the dog is aggressive or tell us the breed.

I am assuming that the owners of Gloria would have made mention of her to the alarm company. Whether or not the alarm dispatcher relayed the information of her presence to the officers responding, or if the police dispatcher told the officers that she would be in the house is unknown. If I know that there is a dog inside of a residence that I am checking and I find an open door, depending on how the dog is reacting to me, I may or may not go in. There are plenty of times that I have been confronted at the door by an angry dog (or two) and simply locked the door and advised the alarm company as to what my findings were. I'm not going in at that point. If I find somewhere on the house that indicates forced entry has been made and there are dogs inside, myself and other officers will set up a perimeter until an owner can respond to contain/control their dogs and a proper search can be made. It is our number one priority when dealing with an aggressive dog to NOT get bit by said dog.

The officers responding in this instance may not have been aware of Gloria's presence, like I said earlier. Poor Gloria may have been taken by surprise when the officers suddenly appeared in her territory and she acted appropriately and was probably afraid and felt that she was defending herself. I know that you think that a dog with arthritis can't move quickly, but let me tell you when adreniline is in play they move FAST. I have an 11 year old senior with terrible arthritis, and I have seen him run at top speed to "fence fight" with a neighborhood dog that was coming up to taunt him at our back fence. You would never guess that my creaky senior could move that fast if you saw him on a daily basis, but he did and can under the proper circumstances.

By the time the officers and Gloria were confronting each other, there was no time for any of them (in their minds) to do anything but react. As someone else said, the officers already more than likely had their guns in their hands and, if forced to defend yourself with a threat (a dog bite) you will automatically eliminate that thread. It is by far not the way I would have like the scenario to have played out, but under the circumstances, I feel that the officers were more than likely justified in shooting her, ESPECIALLY if they didn't know that she was in the home. Even if they did know that she was in the house, I can't see where they will really be found at fault for shooting her. It is very sad that the family lost her in this way, but I'm sorry, the officers WERE doing their jobs.

Put yourself in their shoes during this, please, I ask you....you're checking a door....you find it unlocked. You call out and an assist officer or two goes in with you. You don't know if there is anyone inside the house, and all of your senses are on alert. You come around the corner and you're confronted by an aggressive dog, who by all intents and purposes wants to bite you. Would you instantly asses and see that a barking, lunging, teeth flashing dog moving towards you was "just a harmless senior" or would you defend yourself from the threat? If you were searching a house and a dog was running up to you to BITE YOU, would you reholster the gun in your hand or shoot?

Also, to the knee jerk reaction poster (I believe it was tatiana?) who said that they should "just shoot" the police who came on their property and started acting aggressively, think about this. If you lived in my town, and you were in danger, and I had to risk my life to protect and help you....I would do it, with no hesitation at all. Even if it meant that I wouldn't be going home that night. Peace.

Agreed, completely.

My husband is also an officer and I was highly offended by the person who stated to just shoot the police. These men and women risk their lives for all of us! They are husbands, brothers, fathers, uncles, sisters, mothers, aunts, daughters! They have families, too. And they get out there and go into your homes to protect YOUR property at risk to their LIVES. I resent that someone feels a dog is as equally important if not more important than my husband's life. In no case is the life of a dog equal to that of a human. We may humanize our dogs and love them very much, but in the end, they are animals and we are humans. Two different species.

I agree that procedures may need to be reworked, but as it stands right now - it is completely legal to own a firearm in the United States. Bad guys have guns. Good guys have guns. Since most bad guys commit crimes with guns, a responding police officer is going to have his or her firearm at the ready. And until that law changes, police are going to respond with force. Don't like it? Then start voting to ban guns. We can't have it both ways.

Everyone is outraged that Gloria, an arthritic dog was shot. I'm terribly heartbroken for the family, but the officers did their job! How would any of you like it if your spouse was an officer and had to respond to a burglar call... and was told, use a sausage for the snarling, growling, teeth baring dog?! I don't know what the person who posted that was really thinking, because none of my dogs would ever take a treat from a stranger, much less one that they felt was aggressive. Officers do not have time to coax and plead with an aggressive animal. Especially in the case where a human life might be at risk.

[Lexi]

Originally Posted by Mrs.K

Why is it that in the US all they can do is to shoot while other countries are able to use a different force and they don't even come close to the numbers of shot dogs as in the US.

Ok, so you live in a country where I am assuming the average Joe isn't running around with a 9 mm semi-auto. In the US, there are a lot more people out there who are armed than you may realize. If I'm the responding officer, I don't know if there is anyone in that house other than poor Gloria. And sorry, but I'm going in with my gun out, not a taser. Rule #1 of a gunfight. BRING A GUN. Gloria was an unfortunate victim in this situation, I am not denying that (and neither is Oakland PD, apparently, as they apologized). Those officers were going in expecting the worst per their training. You go into a building to clear it with your gun out, not a taser, not your mace can. End of story.

Originally Posted by Mrs.K

We are talking about a family pet here. I don't want to come home one day and find my dogs shot just because some cop felt threatened and I can't even do anything about it.

Did you do what I asked earlier, Mrs. K, and put yourself in their shoes? I am really curious as to what you would have done differently in that situation. You be the cop. Play it from the LEO side for once. You're clearing a building, with your gun out, and you're in a room where a dog is aggressively barking at you. Assume at this point that you can't back out of the room and Gloria is lunging at you with her mouth open. Do you holster your weapon? Run away and take your chances? Well, sorry, but I gaurantee that almost every single officer is going to eliminate the threat. I am not saying that it's good that it happened, or that I'm not sorry for that family, but I am saying that you just aren't thinking this through realistically, and so are a lot of posters to this thread.

Originally Posted by Mrs.K

And whats even worse is that you can't even let your dog roam freely in your OWN **** HOUSE because you have to fear that a cop could come by and shoot your dog

What kind of world is that? Do you really want to live in CONSTANT FEAR that something COULD happen?
That the alarm could go off? That you have to constantly think about the fact that a cop could come in and feel threatened?

WTF. It's your house! Your property and nobody should have the right to simply shoot YOUR PROPERTY in YOUR HOUSE just because they feel threatened.

So what should an officer do then????? Allow themselves to be bit when your family pet is charging them while they are legally in your home on official police business? Does that really make sense to you?

Seriously?

Keep in mind that YOU didn't lock the door here.....the officers will not FORCE ENTRY into your house on an alarm sounding. Their primary job is to check the building, and if it's locked up tight, Cujo could be lunging rabidly at the window at them while frothing at the mouth, and the cops aren't going to break into your home and shoot him. Use some common sense here. They were doing their jobs.

This whole thing is unfortunate and tragic and there are NO winners here. But to say that the police did anything wrong in this situation is ludicrous.

[BayouBaby]

Originally Posted by Linzi

This was a false burglar alarm call,not a 911 call.Sorry but after reading the dog's owner's report of the incident,the police were wrong.I have put the link to her story below.
Answering alarm, Oakland police kill family dog - SFGate

"The Tuesday incident began after Hallock left her home on Burgos Avenue in the quiet Knowland Park neighborhood just north of the Oakland Zoo. Hallock had set the burglar alarm, and as she had done many times before, she left the downstairs back door open so Gloria could have refuge from the heat in the fenced backyard.
The dog apparently tripped the alarm around noon, and the police showed up a few minutes later.
As officers circled the house, they saw the back door open and thought an intruder was inside, Thomason said. At that point, Gloria allegedly growled and barked at the officers, and one of the officers fired three rounds, all of which hit the dog - at least one in the head."

[Lexi]

Originally Posted by Linzi

This was a false burglar alarm call,not a 911 call.Sorry but after reading the dog's owner's report of the incident,the police were wrong.I have put the link to her story below.
Answering alarm, Oakland police kill family dog - SFGate

I still fail to see where the police acted wrongly. They viewed an open door at the back of the house, so they went into the backyard in order to investigate, which they HAVE to do. A dog comes up barking and growling at them after they have entered the backyard to investigate the open door. The officer shoots the dog, fearing he was going to be bit.

Not only did they leave a note, but a commander from the police department later came to the house personally to apologize. So they notified her as to what had happened, and also went out of their way to apologize to the lady for the loss of her pet on top of it. That's going above and beyond what they had to do to notify the owner.

I think it was pretty foolish on the OWNER'S part to leave the door open in the first place, especially considering she set her alarm before she left. She did this in order to allow the dog to come and go in and out of the house, which sounds nice for the dog, but is almost a gaurantee that the Oakland PD is going to have to respond at some point for a false alarm as she goes in and out of the house and triggers the motion detectors.

Like I've already said, it's very, very sad what happened, but if the owner was going to let Gloria come and go freely, she should not have set her alarm NOR should she have left the basement door wide open. The officer no doubt saw the open door and felt that he was obligated to enter the backyard to investigate it. Like I said before, this is a bad set of circumstances where no one wins.

RIP Gloria.