Should we ban some breeds?

[selzer]

At one incident at a time, you all are condemning your breed.

Wait until there is a reported incident -- it may be a young child dead or someone seriously mauled.

The owner is a homeless man, a man on parole, a junkie woman with three kids, a large family that rented the place last week, a teenage gangsta wannabe, a couple of red neck boys who just shot their GSD in the head six times.

The family of the victim are urged to sue. Sue? They will not even be able to pay for the ER doctor. Sue. There is a huge write up in the paper. People are insensed. People come forward and say the dog did this, the people thought it was funny. They say the people were training it to bite. etc etc etc.

Maybe they can charge them with gross negligence, manslaughter (if the victim is dead), but most likely, these people are losers and sending another one through the over-flowing court systems isn't going to help anyone.

The dog is euthanized. But it isn't enough. Why does this continue to happen? Why do we read about this in newspapers and see it on the news? The people in the fury of their emotions contact their assemblyman and say they want something done.

What can they do?

Well, for starters they can ban this type of dog, and while they're at it, they can ban a bunch of other dog breeds that are similar or have similar reputations.

BSL gets people going, but dead baby pictures do too. Usually by the time there is an incident it is a tragedy. 1000 bully dogs does not equal one two year old. There are a lot of people who think that way. There are millions of dog owners in this country, but only a fraction of those are dog-people.

If you wait around for incidents to deal with cases on a case by case basis, then you are probably going to see a lot more bans and a lot more dogs euthanized because simply, it only takes one serious injury or death to start the ball rolling with BSL.

[ISABELLA'S MOM]

I just think that all breeds should be treated the same because all dogs have the potential to bite and I have owned pit bulls in the past and other breeds and granted Bella's my first GSD but I have always loved this breed and I hate to think that now they could ban them in CO Springs soon and I would love to do something to help these dogs but I really don't know where to start and it's probably best I don't make the rules because I probably would offend a lot of people..lol.. I just wish that people would get to know the breed personally instead of stereotyping it just because of it's name and punish the people not the dog.

[selzer]

My parents' neighbors had one, the nicest little thing. Got wrapped up in Cujo's chain one day along with their overweight pug dog.

Mom asked me what I thought she did. I said, she put Cujo inside and called the cops. (My mom was very ill at the time, recovering from having her intestines chopped out.) They have a chain in the back and put Cujo out for five to ten minutes -- they set the timer.

But mom said no. She went out there and untangled their dogs, had to take the collar off of the pittie to get it loose. But it was the pug that kept trying to bite her.

This pit was a normal-sized pit, maybe 35 pounds. The owner would let the pit and the pug drag her down the street. But whatever.

So I have met nice pits. A friend in training classes has a huge pit and he is the nicest dog ever, but, no, I would rather get bitten by the rottweiler.

Why is this? The Rotty is bred as a guard dog. They are big. The bitch I am thinking about is probably 85 pounds. But it has no terrier in it. The American Pit Bull Terrier was a mixture between bull dogs and terriers. The bull dog was a dog with the power to manage cattle. The terrier was added to this very substantial dog to add a stick-to-it-tiveness that can turn a bad experience into a nightmare. The dogs are bred to fight, to be courageous, to continue through pain, and to go go go.

Unless you train sheps and dobes and rottys to do this, they really bite once or twice usually they do not rip and tear and maul and continue on and on until you stop moving.

So why should someone with an English Setter which is about the most benign dog I have ever met, have the same restrictions of a person with a APBT or Preso Canario?

People who choose these dogs want the dog regardless of the breed's reputation, power, aggressiveness, potential to damage. Since there seems to be so many more incidents with dogs bred for fighting, then maybe dogs bred for fighting should be treated a bit different by dog-legislation.

Should nobody be allowed to own these dogs? I do not think that should be the case. But people who do choose to own these dogs should be required to carry insurance on them, and they should be required to have an approved containment system for the dog.

Too many of these dogs get out of their fencing. There needs to be some standards in how these dogs are contained when people are not right with them.

I do not like muzzling dogs that have never shown a problem. I think that is overkill. But I think they could produce some breed specific legislation that could make things safer for everyone while the dogs are not simply banned.

The thing is banning the dogs is a whole lot easier. Your dog warden is not going to go house to house to find pit bulls and check their containment areas and review your insurance policies. Too much work. Much easier for them to wait for an incident, say that the dog is illegal anyway, and then have it euthanized. The problem with this is that once they are banned, those nasty neighbors two doors down that you complained about last spring are now going to call AC and tell them that you have an illegal dog.

It is much easier for a legislative body to ban several breeds of dogs and their mixes, then it is for them to set requirements and enforce them.

[codmaster]

Doesn't make much difference to me - I don't think I would enjoy being bitten by ANY big dog. I once took a Rottie on a sleeve - WOW! the power in that bite was amazing!

The other point in BSL is where does it stop/ Can anyone really list all of the breeds that you think it is needed? Are all of the bully breeds the same and need to be treated the same? How about the other fighting dogs? Working dogs? herding dogs? GSD's? Etc.

Then we have the owner requirements that some folks seem to like to have?

Same rules for all about dog bites and/or dog/dog or dog/people aggression.

[LaRen616]

The way I see it.

Say we ban Dobermans, there are millions of people out there that absolutely love their Dobermans, their are forums just like this one that is dedicated to the Doberman breed. If we are for the Doberman breed ban than they'll come after OUR GSD's next. How would we feel if all of our GSD's weren't allowed in the US anymore? If you have a dog, especially if you have a purebred dog, you should not be for the BSL, you should be against it.

There are 75 breeds on the BSL list, how many of you own one of those breeds or a mix of that breed?

EXACTLY

[Lilie]

My parents live in a small rural town in Western Kentucky. One resident had a pit bull that attacked a child while she was riding her bike. They fined the owners, and PTS the dog.

The same owners got another Pitt shortly afterwards and before it was a year old, it attacked their 4 year old son and killed him. Both parents were charged and required to do time in jail. The dog was PTS.

Obviously the town was shocked by the attack and moved to ban Pits. While they were at it, they banned numerous other breeds as well. In one swoop. Now they are talking about banning any dog considered 'large'.

It is truly like a witch hunt there now. If somebody thinks your dog looks like a GSD, or Rott, or Pitt, (etc.) they file a grievance agaisnt you and you have to appear in court to prove your dog isn't. If you can't, you have to remove your dog.

My dad has a mutt - some sort of retriever mix. He is worried that they are going to force him to remove the dog, because he doesn't know what exactly what all she is mixed with. The dog is vetted, and healthy and fixed and well loved and was adopted through a rescue. He has a farm outside of town, and is considering chaining her out at the farm so he won't have to have her PTS. It breaks my heart.

The resulting witch hunt has encourage people to dump their dogs as well. They don't want to get involved with the legalities of protecting their 'old farm dog'.

It is truly scarey what the majority can do. Truly scarey. This run away train was caused by ONE family who (to me) had no buisness with a dog of any kind. ONE family who had TWO attacks by thier dogs.

[Lauri & The Gang]

I have the answer to the WHOLE problem.

People should be required to be LICENSED before they can own a dog.

We don't let people drive cars without a license - it's the same principle.

People would be required to go to a training class on proper dog care (maybe 1-2 hours) BEFORE getting their license.

They are are given a temp permit so they can GET the dog. After a set period of time (maybe a couple months) they are required to go to a evaluation center WITH the dog to show they are properly caring for it and can control it. Then they can receive their permanent license.

But - they are required to return once a year to renew their license (with the dog).

[onyx'girl]

That would be governmental interference, though I think it would be good for people to have licenses to have kids too!

[APBTLove]

Lauri, the problems I see with that are that the majority of dog owners wouldn't do that... and the resources and man power it would take to go to every home and look for unregistered dogs/unlicensed owners would be immense... And for people like me who have unstable/very nervy dogs like Jaeger would be forced to kill a dog who, in my hands, is not a threat. I don't put him in situations to react badly...


I shall post more later, I have to take my big dummy out..

[Jessiewessie99]

Originally Posted by codmaster

Jessie - sounds like you are FOR breed specific legislation? Is that true?

"Pit bulls" today "enjoy" the same noteriety that Dobes, GSD's, and Rotties have enjoyed in various periods in the past. Great popularity from the news media whenever the breed does anything bad.

BTW, Jessie do you really think that a pit bull is any worse than a Rottie. Which would you rather get bitten by? NIETHER! Of course.

Insurance companies look at statistics to determine which dogs are not worth insuring based on frequency and amounts paid out. They do not discriminate blindly - based on numbers! Some companies can interpret the hard data differently which is why some will insure GSD's and some will not. Their choice - they all look at the same empirical data.

Ummmm no I am not for BSL, I am against it you read my post wrong. I never said pitbulls were worse than Rotties. I work with both at my shelter. One of the reasons my insurance will not let us own dogs is because they think they are "dangerous when they aren't.

So please do not twist my words.