Shock collar!!!! Some of u might be interestd

[Dainerra]

do you realize that an e-collar has less of a zap than the wire you ran? they would learn exactly the same thing - where the boundary is.

[selzer]

I am not sure that is the case, this little job is a solar powered unit that does not have much oomph. But it is different because they can see it and avoid it. They may be able to avoid something because of a collar, but the collar itself is on them and zapping them. I don't like it.

But as I said, there is no converting me on this. But I am not asking for them to be banned. I do not understand why people think that if you are not in favor of them, you are wrong and must be converted.

[crs996]

Originally Posted by selzer

They do not ever try to go beyond that wire, they respect it because they do not like being zapped.

I do not feel that is cruel because it is visible. The dog knows to stay away from it.

Ha! This is the ultimate hypocrisy, a zap is a zap. Many dogs also know when the collar is on, no different than "seeing" a fence. You must feel it's a pretty evil tool to use for one afternoon to justify kenneling a dog for it's lifetime!

P.S. I have seen these "mild" little solar fences kill birds and squirrels.

Originally Posted by selzer

But as I said, there is no converting me on this. But I am not asking for them to be banned. I do not understand why people think that if you are not in favor of them, you are wrong and must be converted.

I'm not trying to convert anyone, I don't really care how others train, I only care when I see more ignorant legislation coming down the pike inspired by ignorant people like this Facebook nonsense. I think it just gets tiresome how those who have such visceral hate for these tools are so unbalanced about them, using such words as "violent", "frying", "torture" etc, espousing the moral high ground while hesitantly & condescendingly accepting the fact that there are still portions of the unwashed masses who use such "primitive" training tools.

[Liesje]

The zap from a live wire fence and the stim from a collar, at least the levels I have used on myself, are not comparable. A carpet shock is far more painful. The low levels of stim I use on my dogs are either so low that my body doesn't even register them, or they feel almost more like vibration. I was testing an e-collar's levels on my left thumb and the stim almost felt like it was helping my arthritis so I looked into TENS units. I would never, ever use a live wire fence (and they are illegal where I live).

[LouCastle]

Originally Posted by selzer

Yes, I guess I am saying that dogs should not enjoy freedom if they cannot be properly contained because they will go through or over a fence to chase cats or cattle.

Conveniently overlooking the fact that such dogs can easily be controlled and trained with an Ecollar.

Originally Posted by selzer

[b]I do not feel that is cruel because it is visible.bbb The dog knows to stay away from it. And it is specifically safe for cattle and dogs. I have zapped myself with it, and do not like it either. But the dogs can see it and keep away. To me that makes a lot of difference. They cannot keep away from their collar. [Emphasis added]

Any dog that's been properly trained with an Ecollar knows that he can avoid FOREVER a stim. All that's necessary is that he obeys commands he's given. Yours is just an excuse that allows you to rationalize your use a tool that gives a shock that's well over half a million times more powerful than one from an Ecollar.

Originally Posted by selzer

Out here chasing cattle will get you killed, simple. Better the dog be crated or kenneled than dead.

Better than crating or kenneling is that he be trained.

Originally Posted by selzer

There is nothing inhumane about a properly built kennel.

But there is a LOT of inhumanity in never allowing a dog to run free because your methods are incapable of controlling him.

Originally Posted by selzer

Considerable crate time is another story. But I will take that over the dog running free to be smooshed in the road or shot by a neighbor.

Or you could just train him.

[sagelfn]

At work today we were talking about how scary it is when ignorant people ban together for a cause..then this FB link

Personally I don't think I'd ever use an ecollar (so far I also do not have a need for one) but I would never ban the use of them. I really don't feel like ticketing people for having one or checking for efences on patrols...sounds like a complete waste of tax money to me.

[LouCastle]

Originally Posted by selzer

If I have a dog like you mentioned, I will not give it the opportunity. You can certainly manage a dog without zapping it, but it means not letting it get to the road.

And since management depends on a human, it will always break down. FAR better to train the dog. Of course, in this case, your methods are ineffective and so you make excuses and argue against Ecollars.

Originally Posted by selzer

There is nothing that anyone can tell me to make me believe that shock collars or e-collars if you like, are perfectly ok. But, as I already said, I would not try to have them banned which is the point of this thread, not to make converts to the e-collar camp.

We know from this conversation that your mind is made up and you don't want to be confused with facts or reasoning. You prefer not to learn anything new that might change your mind. Nothing's changed here.

[LouCastle]

Originally Posted by Dainerra

do you realize that an e-collar has less of a zap than the wire you ran? they would learn exactly the same thing - where the boundary is.

Originally Posted by selzer

I am not sure that is the case, this little job is a solar powered unit that does not have much oomph.

Yet ANOTHER rationalization. The solar cells power the batteries, the exact same batteries that are used in other units. Some are powered by AC power. They have a transformer that reduces the current to the wires. ALL charged fences give very similar power shocks that are over half a million times more powerful than those that come from an Ecollar.

Originally Posted by selzer

But it is different because they can see it and avoid it.

ANOTHER rationalization. It's not different. as I've already pointed out. You've convinced yourself that it is so that you can sleep easy.

Originally Posted by selzer

They may be able to avoid something because of a collar, but the collar itself is on them and zapping them. I don't like it.

The collar isn't "zapping them." Their failure to comply with a command is. But if they obey, it doesn’t happen. Conveniently you ignore this vital fact.

Originally Posted by selzer

But as I said, there is no converting me on this.

I doubt that anyone is trying to convert you. I'm certainly not. Rather I'm pointing out the obvious (to everyone but you) logical flaws in your argument.

[RSpencer]

we've used them for years training our labs and bird dogs, used the right way it is no different than a whistle. ecollars are for getting attention, not for punishment and as many have already stated education is the key, and by education i mean you fullly charge the unit and hold it in your hand and see how much is takes to get your own attention, i have personally done this cause i am the type tht will never do anything to my dogs that i wouldnt do to myself. ecollars are very useful tools and yes if it is used incorrectly it will damage a dog, but a person has to knw the limits. People tht own them should seriously try the differnt levels on themselves and see that it is low voltage and it gives more of a tingle then a shock, and if you cann't test it on yourself then you have no right to put it on your dog...

jus my 2cents....

[gmcenroe]

I don't think e-collars should be banned. If the user is educated on proper use, these can be effective training tools. If they inflict pain they are set too high and your dog will let you know. For recall training they are very effective when your dog is 50yards away and you can't use a long line. I don't think they should be used as a crutch and they can be used in conjunction with positive rewards. I only use an e-collar when I am too far from my dog to make a leash correction, and I tried it out on myself before I used it on my dog.