Shock collar!!!! Some of u might be interestd

[doggiedad]

if i remember correctly my kids use to
put a blade of grass around the e-fence
or one of them would touch the e-fence
and hold a blade of grass in the other
hand and another kid would touch the blade of
grass or their bare hand and they would send the shock
to the other kid.

i'm not sure why i never corrected this behaviour?

Originally Posted by Mrs.K

We have e-fences for the horses.

[Lin]

I think using the term "shock" collar also puts a bad thought in many peoples minds. And the way they are frequently used in tv and movies for humor, such as in bruce almighty I think when he puts the ecollar on and the dog leaps into the air in pain. Ecollars used correctly are NOT used as punishment, they are used as negative reinforcement. You do not shock the dog to punish a behavior, but use it to proof behaviors and increase liklihood to behave and time taken. Such as calling the dog, applying the collar, and releasing when the dog responds to you.

I was going to use a ecollar to proof Logans "leave it" when it came to the cats. He had a very high chasing drive, he would stop as soon as I called him but I thought maybe working with the ecollar I could get him to a point where he didn't even start the chase. I did a lot of research, but opted not to try it since there weren't any local ecollar trainers.

I originally thought prong collars were abusive, until I worked with a trainer and understood their purpose. I use a prong collar on my service dog. Is it needed? Probably not. But the act of putting on her collar and harness puts her immediately into work mode. Because of being disabled, I feel more comfortable with her having the prong in case of an emergency. It allows me to remain calm and confident. Every animal and human are individuals and what is going to work for one team isn't necessarily going to work for another.

[Catu]

Originally Posted by selzer

If I had a dog that chased livestock, I would not give it the opportunity to do so. That might mean crating or kenneling indoors.

I think that if you ask many dogs, mine included, to endure a few sessions of discomfort versus to spend the rest of their lives kenneled and on leashes they will choose the first.

And there are dogs, as SAR dogs, who you can't give them the choice. You need them to work unleashed and you'll need, sooner or later, to work near cattle.

[LouCastle]

Originally Posted by Lin

I think using the term "shock" collar also puts a bad thought in many peoples minds … I was going to use a ecollar to proof Logans "leave it" when it came to the cats. He had a very high chasing drive, he would stop as soon as I called him but I thought maybe working with the ecollar I could get him to a point where he didn't even start the chase. I did a lot of research, but opted not to try it since there weren't any local ecollar trainers …I originally thought prong collars were abusive, until I worked with a trainer and understood their purpose.

Often people use the term "shock collar" just for that purpose. It's an emotional club.

I'd suggest that to stop your dog's crittering you take a look HERE. Lots of people with no training experience of any kind, much less with an Ecollar have used it to their complete satisfaction.

I'm always interested in the opinions of people who have made the switch from "I think they're abusive." to "I'm a user." Can you tell us why you initially felt that they were abusive, what changed your mind and what the trainer did to push you over the edge into "user?"

[Lin]

Logan passed away in November, so chasing of cats is no longer a problem.

I can't remember specifically why I thought prong collars were abusive, I think just having heard it plus they do look scary if you aren't familiar with how it works. The trainer that taught me how to use it explained its purpose and I even tried the links on myself and saw that it did not hurt. Watching the change in my dog from trying to choke herself with excitement to calmly walking beside me is what sold me on it. I think behaving on a prong, is much more humane than a dog choking itself in a flat collar! Also being disabled I don't have a lot of strength and can get hurt very easily. Once in a flat collar Tessa went from a sit to 60 mph completely pulling me off my feet and dragging me through the grass about 6 feet before realizing what she had done and stopping. We were at the park and I was having a conversation with a friend when she decided she just couldn't stand it any longer, and REALLY wanted to go say hi to a dog across the park!

[WISLADY]

IMHO, the e collar is just another tool that can be used in training. I have used prong collars and e collars. I went to a trainer who teaches remote training, and had several sessions to practice the proper use of the e collar. I use the e collar when I have my dog off lead for exercise.

I don't think the e collar is harmful (with proper use), and it is to the TENS unit I have used for myself. The stimulation can be felt, but I wouldn't say it is painful.

[crs996]

Originally Posted by Catu

I think that if you ask many dogs, mine included, to endure a few sessions of discomfort versus to spend the rest of their lives kenneled and on leashes they will choose the first.

And there are dogs, as SAR dogs, who you can't give them the choice. You need them to work unleashed and you'll need, sooner or later, to work near cattle.

Exactly!! All the e-collar did was stop them from "checking out" and getting wild at a great distance. I lived on 10 acres at the time, with 3 fully fenced.

Selzer, are you seriously saying that that instead of allowing my dogs to enjoy the daily freedom to just be dogs and play on 3 otherwise secure acres I should have crated or kenneled them, because of one easily correctable issue??? Which is more cruel in that scenario?

[selzer]

Yes, I guess I am saying that dogs should not enjoy freedom if they cannot be properly contained because they will go through or over a fence to chase cats or cattle.

I have used a cattle fence along the inside of my fence to keep my dogs from molesting the fence. But the fence DOES keep other critters out, and my dogs will run to the wire, look for it so they KNOW how far they can go, and then go that far. They do not ever try to go beyond that wire, they respect it because they do not like being zapped.

I do not feel that is cruel because it is visible. The dog knows to stay away from it. And it is specifically safe for cattle and dogs. I have zapped myself with it, and do not like it either. But the dogs can see it and keep away. To me that makes a lot of difference. They cannot keep away from their collar.

Out here chasing cattle will get you killed, simple. Better the dog be crated or kenneled than dead. There is nothing inhumane about a properly built kennel. Considerable crate time is another story. But I will take that over the dog running free to be smooshed in the road or shot by a neighbor.

[JOSHUA SAMPSON]

What is worse

1. a stubborn dog who has high drive and focus and chases anything and roams and sniffs where they want to go. even though on leash (30') they have been thoroughly trained to recall and do everything correctly but they get hit on the road because they dont understand that that van cannot dance around them like a cow or deer could. is permenantly disabled or gruesomely and painfully killed!

2. The same dog who when he runs to the road is "corrected" utilizing the latest in e-collar technology to correct the bahavior and force the dog to pay attention while off leash. consequently he learns that if he does not mind and pay attention to commands he will recieve a correction wether he is on leash or not. and now not only does not go to the road to get killed by oncoming cars but also sits, lay's, recall's and all other commands while off leash. Makes for a well mannered dog who does as they're told in a dangerous human world.

[selzer]

If I have a dog like you mentioned, I will not give it the opportunity. You can certainly manage a dog without zapping it, but it means not letting it get to the road.

There is nothing that anyone can tell me to make me believe that shock collars or e-collars if you like, are perfectly ok. But, as I already said, I would not try to have them banned which is the point of this thread, not to make converts to the e-collar camp.

We can go round and round all day about training without gadgets, training with praise and treats vs. training with corrective collars. And and the end of the day I will STILL think that prongs, haltis, and e-collars are unnecessary. So maybe we should stick to the topic.