Shock collar!!!! Some of u might be interestd

[selzer]

What do I do?

Happened today. My puppy NORMALLY goes right to the front door when I let her out of my car. Today she decided to follow my track down the drive to my mailbox across the street -- rural road where people drive like maniacs.

I did not notice right away because I was fiddling with the junk in the back of my vehicle. I turned and she was nearing the road.

I called and ran toward the house. It worked. She turned and ran after me. No shock collar was needed. Puppy is safe. Owner's heart is back down to normal now.

[crs996]

Recall training might not be high on my priority list for e-collar use (although it is effective), but there are many situations involving obsessive behavior, poison proofing, or behavior that only occurs when the dog thinks you're not home that can quickly and easily curbed with e-collars. I don't know how poison proofing can be effectively done otherwise. They are effective in cases where standard corrections are not possible and you don't have 6 months for chicken treat clicker training.

An example is when I had a dog that was crazy about chasing livestock when we weren't home. He'd jump fences etc. to get to them, so I hired a trainer and in just one afternoon, the behavior was stopped with an e-collar. Where I lived, dogs could be legally shot for harassing livestock, so clicker food bribing was out of the question, it needed to be stopped NOW.

By the way, I had my dogs poison proofed with an e-collar due to some local dog poisonings, the avoidance of food thrown over the gate was amazing and lasted for years, and gave me peace of mind.

[selzer]

If I had a dog that chased livestock, I would not give it the opportunity to do so. That might mean crating or kenneling indoors.

If someone is willing to throw poisoned meat to your dogs, they might shoot them with bow or gun. If you are that worried about hostile people, the dog should not be where they can get to them.

I do not find these as reasons to put an e-collar on a dog.

People zap themselves with the collar and say it is not so bad. But dogs seem to be hyper sensitive to electricity. For instance, they can sense electrical storms long before we can. And a dog will not let you know they are hurting until it is excruciating, so if the dog IS reacting to it, it may be bothering them much more than we think it is.

Someone suggeste it is the only humane way to train, and I disagree completely. I also think that a dog that cannot be trained without the use of an e-collar, prong collar, halti collar, or special harness should be bred as I believe if a dog cannot be trained without such gadgets, there is something wrong with them. This does not mean that people using them as a shortcut to training have something wrong with their dogs. Only if the dog is considered untrainable without these devices, then they should not be bred.

[Syaoransbear]

Originally Posted by selzer

People zap themselves with the collar and say it is not so bad. But dogs seem to be hyper sensitive to electricity. For instance, they can sense electrical storms long before we can. And a dog will not let you know they are hurting until it is excruciating, so if the dog IS reacting to it, it may be bothering them much more than we think it is.

I think they use other senses to sense electrical storms though, not touch. I think every dog and person is different, and while one dog might not be able to feel level 20, that might be a horrible experience for another dog. People are different too. My boyfriend can't feel the shock until level 24. I can feel it on level 1.

I actually think dogs overreact to pain because they need to vocalize to tell the other dog(or person) "hey, what you're doing hurts!". When two dogs are playing and things get a little rough, a dog will yelp even if it didn't actually hurt that much, or if it just got pinched by accident. When I accidentally step on my dogs foot, he lets out a yelp. When I use a shock collar correction, he just blinks or looks down. I don't think dogs try to hide pain.

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by Syaoransbear

I think they use other senses to sense electrical storms though, not touch. I think every dog and person is different, and while one dog might not be able to feel level 20, that might be a horrible experience for another dog. People are different too. My boyfriend can't feel the shock until level 24. I can feel it on level 1.

I actually think dogs overreact to pain because they need to vocalize to tell the other dog(or person) "hey, what you're doing hurts!". When two dogs are playing and things get a little rough, a dog will yelp even if it didn't actually hurt that much, or if it just got pinched by accident. When I accidentally step on my dogs foot, he lets out a yelp. When I use a shock collar correction, he just blinks or looks down. I don't think dogs try to hide pain.

And some dogs yelp before they got even touched at all...

We have e-fences for the horses. Do you know how many times one of the dogs peed against it or even ran into it while they were playing? I touched it plenty of times myself and "yelped" myself but not because it hurt me. It was more the surprise that I got a light electro hit myself.

[LouCastle]

Originally Posted by selzer

What do I do? … I called and ran toward the house. It worked. She turned and ran after me. No shock collar was needed. Puppy is safe. Owner's heart is back down to normal now.

You seem to have missed this part "your dog is not obeying your command to recall" unless you mean for your answer to be "run toward the house." if so it merely points out that your dog is not very highly driven to run down the drive. If a dog IS highly driven you might as well set off a bomb, it's not going to turn to see what you are doing.

So I'll rephrase. Your dog, who lives to chase cats, is chasing one towards a busy road and is not obeying your repeated commands to recall. What do you do. Please don't waste our time with comments like "… my dog doesn’t like to chase cats." That's just begging the question.

[LouCastle]

Originally Posted by crs996

Recall training might not be high on my priority list for e-collar use (although it is effective)

It is QUITE high on the list for many. It's effectiveness, as you say, is one reason for this. Another reason is the frequent failure of dogs to recall when distractions are present when some methods are used.

[LouCastle]

Originally Posted by selzer

People zap themselves with the collar and say it is not so bad. But dogs seem to be hyper sensitive to electricity. For instance, they can sense electrical storms long before we can.

I think we've had this exchange before and you've been asked to provide a scientific source for the claim that dogs are "hypersensitive to electricity." I've never seen such a citation. Your statement regarding their ability to sense electrical storms before we can may also be due to (and is much more likely to be due to) a change in barometric pressure that occurs as these storms approach.

Originally Posted by selzer

And a dog will not let you know they are hurting until it is excruciating, so if the dog IS reacting to it, it may be bothering them much more than we think it is.

Many dogs hide chronic (that means long–term) pain. The sudden onset of pain, as is the case with an Ecollar, is never hidden to someone who is a good observer. And even a beginner can learn the signs with a small bit of training.

But we're back to a discussion of pain again and it's not necessary that an Ecollar cause pain to get results. Pain, as any reasonable person knows, is a continuum. It ranges from the highest possible level that makes you jump up and run out of the room. To the lowest level, where the basic work with the Ecollar is done. It's closer to "It's chilly; I think I need a sweater." The most common response from a dog who's feeling his first Ecollar stim is to sit and scratch as if from a single flea bite or to look at the ground. If you want to call that "pain" feel free but I think it's absurd!

I think, as does any reasonable, rational person, that the discomfort of an Ecollar stim used at the appropriate level is not pain. Dogs (all animals in fact) respond to the sudden onset of pain the same way. They move away from it as quickly as they can, often jumping, often vocalizing.

Originally Posted by selzer

Someone suggeste it is the only humane way to train, and I disagree completely.

I don't think that anyone has said any such thing in this discussion. Perhaps you mean it happened elsewhere? If so, please provide a link.

Originally Posted by selzer

I also think that a dog that cannot be trained without the use of an e-collar, prong collar, halti collar, or special harness should be bred as I believe if a dog cannot be trained without such gadgets, there is something wrong with them.

There's nothing wrong with such dogs, it's the ineffective training methods that people insist on using (even though they don't produce results) that are at fault. Among people who compete or those who search for lost persons or criminals, such highly driven dogs are VERY desirable. Dogs with lesser drive levels quit when the going gets tough.

When people talk about breeding better dogs drive level is one thing they're talking about. For a working dog, higher is generally better when the drive goes towards the work.

[LouCastle]

Originally Posted by Mrs.K

We have e-fences for the horses. Do you know how many times one of the dogs peed against it or even ran into it while they were playing? I touched it plenty of times myself and "yelped" myself but not because it hurt me. It was more the surprise that I got a light electro hit myself.

Any idea of how an Ecollar stim relates to a charged fence used for livestock? An Ecollar used, as I advocate, emits 0.000005 Joules. An electric fence charger emits 3.2 Joules, 640,000 times more powerful. Notice that the "Coalition" is not opposed to livestock fences.

[Mrs.K]

Originally Posted by LouCastle

Any idea of how an Ecollar stim relates to a charged fence used for livestock? An Ecollar used, as I advocate, emits 0.000005 Joules. An electric fence charger emits 3.2 Joules, 640,000 times more powerful. Notice that the "Coalition" is not opposed to livestock fences.

yes, it is much more poweful. And many people just don't understand how an e-collar really works. All they see is the E in front of the collar...