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Old 10-30-2009, 01:30 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Default Re: Here's another good reason why I hate coyotes

Hey guys, I've been lurking on this forum for a few months but this thread has caused me to join and post (i havent joined before because while I do want a GSD it wont be until I finish college in a few years).

Coyotes are interesting in the fact that this canine family is interesting. First of all lets look at them genetically. Our beloved dogs technically ARE wolves. In fact our domesticated dogs are a subspecies of the grey wolf "canis lupus familiaris". So in that sense the grey wolf and the common domesticated dog are the same species.

Now for Coyotes it's a bit harder in general they share the same genus as wolf/dogs (canis) but are a seperate species (canis latrans). In general species that share a genus are close enough to interbreed and are almost the same animal.. Genetically speaking if they can interbreed they ARE the same species.

Anyways my point was for the people here talking so lowly on coyotes keep in mind they are almost the same animal as your beloved dog..just the wild primitive version. When you are glad to see a dead coyote on the ground its like looking at your dogs cousin dead on the street and being happy.

But the #1 issue here is the coyotes range, historically they were only western animals but since wolves have dissapeared coyotes have spread like wildfire. I am 100% for coyote control for the eastern US/Canada. They dont belong here and should be exterminated from here. As for people in the west coast...what can I say. You need to learn to live with them, they were there for thousands of years.

I am actually in favor of wolf reintroduction in some very rural parts of the eastern US (new england, smoky mountains [they attempted this but it failed]). When the wolves who remember are basically the same as our dogs, just the wild "parent" version were reintroduced to Yellowstone the coyote population plumetted. In fact the entire ecosystem became healtheir with wolves reintroduced, moose, deer etc feared eating tree saplings out in the open because of wolves and took to the very deep woods or the mountainous areas, and as a result spruce tree saplings are finally growing (yellowstone had no new growth of many trees until wolves were reintroduced).

Wolves are problematic for cattle and even worse for domesticated dogs (even a german shepherd would be outmatched by a full grown male wolf), but in general they are much much shyer of humans and stay away from cities, coyotes on the other hand move everywhere and anywhere. You actually have a higher chance as a human being attacked by a coyote then a wolf.
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Old 10-30-2009, 03:12 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: Here's another good reason why I hate coyotes

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Originally Posted By: Cnel90....I am 100% for coyote control for the eastern US/Canada. They dont belong here and should be exterminated from here. As for people in the west coast...what can I say. You need to learn to live with them, they were there for thousands of years.

I am actually in favor of wolf reintroduction in some very rural parts of the eastern US (new england, smoky mountains [they attempted this but it failed]). When the wolves who remember are basically the same as our dogs, just the wild "parent" version were reintroduced to Yellowstone the coyote population plumetted. In fact the entire ecosystem became healtheir with wolves reintroduced, moose, deer etc feared eating tree saplings out in the open because of wolves and took to the very deep woods or the mountainous areas, and as a result spruce tree saplings are finally growing (yellowstone had no new growth of many trees until wolves were reintroduced).

Wolves are problematic for cattle and even worse for domesticated dogs (even a german shepherd would be outmatched by a full grown male wolf), but in general they are much much shyer of humans and stay away from cities, coyotes on the other hand move everywhere and anywhere. You actually have a higher chance as a human being attacked by a coyote then a wolf.
There's a recent study out that shows wolves and moose populations could no longer thrive in some areas they once populated due to global warming And of course you have a higher risk to be attacked by a coyote than a wolf there are more coyotes and they are in more places...

I'm all for hunting and efforts to control the population of coyotes...but it must be regulated...no sick contests to have people go out and kill as many coyotes as they can with no regards to what they are killing (moms/pups). People will kill a coyote for no other reason than the coyote was there...they are looked at as vermin (i know most of you here agree with that) but you wouldn't shoot a mother deer with its baby but if its a coyote or coon its ok because they are vermin right... Its our fault the population of coyotes is what it is and i'm disappointed that the solution seems to be wipe them out completely where they don't belong and let them have the space thats left...how about some respect for an animal that can thrive virtually anywhere no matter what we humans do to destroy its environment.

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Originally Posted By: LARHAGE...lets see you have to come home everyday and see slaughter and destruction of your loved pets for no reason other than some lazy Coyote taking the easy way out, there are thousands of rabbits to kill, it's easy to be a bleeding heart when it isn't your heart being ripped apart.
coyotes are lazy for taking the easy way out?? thats called survival! why would it waste its energy hunting and possibly not catching a rabbit when it can get a free meal? any predator out there will take an easy meal over a hard one. I'm sorry you've had animals die but you must at some level understand that this is nature and normal behavior for predators....

I live in central Illinois...almost as many coyotes as cornfields here. I've never gone camping or hiking without running into coyotes and I've never been attacked by one. I've been bitten by a dog and a goose, almost attacked by a raccoon, and charged by a buck. I don't hate any animal species for being what they are.
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Old 10-30-2009, 04:27 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: Here's another good reason why I hate coyotes

But the eastern US is not the coyotes environment. I for one, not sure about other people, support strong control of coyote populations in the eastern US. They do not fill any nich the wolves left behind, they can attempt to but they dont. Their main sources of food are completely different. Coyotes do more harm here in the east then they do good especially when they go into urban areas. The plain states and the west are big enough for coyote habitat, thats bigger then the entire eastern seabord.

I also agree with you, I dont hate any canines or animal for that matter, but coyotes like kudzu should be considered as an invasive species for the eastern region in the US. To make it clear I would not support strict regulation of coyotes in their natural habitats at all. No way! People definately need to respect them over there.
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Old 10-30-2009, 01:11 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: Here's another good reason why I hate coyotes

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Originally Posted By: LARHAGE


My little parcel sits on thousands of acres of unencumbered land, they have access to that, and as long as they stay on that and hunt their NATURAL prey they will have no problem from me, they set their hideous asses on my land looking for my animals to eat than they will in fact be mauled to death again by my dogs protecting MY property , turn about is fair play and I'm not going to apologize for it, lets see you have to come home everyday and see slaughter and destruction of your loved pets for no reason other than some lazy Coyote taking the easy way out, there are thousands of rabbits to kill, it's easy to be a bleeding heart when it isn't your heart being ripped apart.
I keep my pets safe. If I knew I lived where predators were roaming everywhere, my small animals would be indoors, in the case of chickens, their pens would be well secured. I know it is not impossible to keep a dog type animal out. Herds of goats and what have you could easily be safe by using a guardian animals.

I have lost pets in the past to animals, and I don't have any hate for the animal who did it. He was being a animal, but I learned my lesson.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGWb8...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbb_n...eature=related

My main peeve is that since people don't like them, they think it is okay to kill them in some of the nastiest ways.
The first vid is a protest against pen hunting, which I also agree is nasty, but I just wanted to show what hunting with dogs like that is.

Bleeding heart? I believe in killing to save yourself or loved ones, or for food. But you see a coyote on 'your land' that might have never, and might never, harm a livestock or pet animal, and justify mauling it to death.

I am not a bleeding heart, I just have a lot more respect for animals surviving on what they can and being true to what they are than I do people. There are coyotes, bears, wolves, and whaever else people have introduced as well in Virginia. Give them their space and take every measure before extinguishing their lives. If it means good electric fences, livestock dogs and llamas, so be it, if I absolutely had to, meaning I had a problem coyote who was getting past well defended pens and protecive animale, electricity and ect. then I would take one out myself, not leave it up to the animals.
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Old 10-30-2009, 01:21 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Default Re: Here's another good reason why I hate coyotes

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Originally Posted By: APBTLove
Herds of goats and what have you could easily be safe by using a guardian animals.
Guardian animals as in german shepherds? And how do you plan on keeping that guardian animal safe against a pack of coyotes? They hunt in packs and attack in packs. 3-4 coyotes will easily tear apart a german shepherd.

And as far as keeping your animals safe and indoors...well all dogs need to be outside at some point. Are you going to stand out there and protect your dog when you let it out to go the bathroom against a pack of coyotes that have lost it's fear of humans?

I think before you pass judgement on ppl living outside of town, where the coyote is not usually a problem, you need to give some thought to different areas and different problems.

I understand perfectly what your point is but there is no way I'm putting my dog outside as a guardian animal so she could be ripped apart.
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Old 10-30-2009, 02:05 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: Here's another good reason why I hate coyotes

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Originally Posted By: APBTLove
My main peeve is that since people don't like them, they think it is okay to kill them in some of the nastiest ways.
The first vid is a protest against pen hunting, which I also agree is nasty, but I just wanted to show what hunting with dogs like that is.
Those I would bet would be the same types that scream bloody murder if their pack of hunting dogs gets wiped out by a pack of wolves when out setting them on bears or coyotes or deer.
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Old 10-30-2009, 04:32 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Default Re: Here's another good reason why I hate coyotes

Guardian animals like Llamas, ever seen a llama go after something? And no, dogs like this:
http://retrieverman.wordpress.com/2009/0...r-working-dogs/
http://bpg.sytes.net/nagazi/images/I..._Attacking.jpg
If you can find a pack of coyotes able to take down 2-3 Ovtcharka's let me know.

I have family in places where they have had cats and small dogs mauled to death by coyotes, they also have a 5' chain link fence and free roaming cats. They poison and trap and kill any fox/'yote they happen to see because their feelings were hurt when their beloved friends were killed.

EDIT
I have given thought, but I have also spoken with many, many people in other states who deal with hogs, coyotes, even wolves causing horrible damage, but they go out of their way NOT to kill off the animals before they resort to shooting them. Which, I might add, is much more humane.
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Old 10-30-2009, 04:34 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: Here's another good reason why I hate coyotes

oh...I wish I were young and knew everything still.
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Old 10-30-2009, 04:50 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Default Re: Here's another good reason why I hate coyotes

*sigh* Thought we were over this? I am stating my opinions and my experiences, as well as the methods I would use and the lengths I'd go NOT to kill an animal.

Another breed I'd consider better than a GSD in protecting herds from Coyotes.
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ljh5vpPwigc/hqdefault.jpg
Of course, I doubt any coyote would be dumb enough to come in the area if he saw one of them....

I guess we all have differing opinions, but I'd go pretty far not to kill something, especially if I had means to keep it away from my pets and home.


And, not to say "Aww, look at da cute coyote", I found this vid while searching for vids of Kangals working and thought it was funny... Such a clueless dog.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFW4w-61hic
Thought you guys might like it.

And Jax, I replied to the message you sent me a while ago, a rather long winded reply, and gave my apologies to you and whomever else I might offend. You said I was snarky with you, if you don't mind me saying so, as I said at the time, I don't have any feelings against you, but you are the one who just posted this with me saying nothing wrong to you:
Quote:
Originally Posted By: Jax08oh...I wish I were young and knew everything still.
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Old 10-30-2009, 05:05 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Default Re: Here's another good reason why I hate coyotes

In addition to dogs, I've also heard of people using llamas and donkeys as livestock guardians. GSDs are not considered to be stock guardians.

The USDA's fact sheet lists some of the common breeds used as livestock guardians: "Great Pyrenees (France), Komondor (Hungary), Akbash dog and Anatolian Shepherd (Turkey), and Maremma (Italy). Pyrenees and Akbash dogs are among the more successful breeds."

It also includes information on selecting and raising the dogs for this function and some of the the success the dogs have had with coyotes and bobcats.

One story relates that a sheep producer in Idaho had a flock of 200 ewes and lost about 12 lambs each year to coyotes. After adding a stock guardian his loss dropped to only 4 lambs in a 5 year period.

The fact sheet also stated, "Guarding dogs may not be suitable in very large pastures (several sections or larger) where sheep are widely scattered. At least two dogs are recommended for range operations or in large areas with more than several hundred sheep."

http://www.flockguard.org/lgdusdafact.htm
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