Illinois Legislation

[lcht2]

Originally Posted By: selzer
Schutzhund is a working dog title. It tests for obedience, tracking, and protection. I am not 100% sure if protection part is included in the SchH1 title. It does not test German Shepherds for what the dogs are bred to do. Sorry. German Shepherds were bred to herd sheep. There is no herding test in the Schutzhund training.

yes GSD's were bread for herding but SchH was designed to test the dogs temperment, courage and hardness. yes they do use protection in a SchH 1. the GSD was also bread to protect its flock, his master/owner, and his territory from whatever threat. obviously you arent going to put a GSD in with a flock of sheep and then dump a wolf or coyote into the mix just to see what the GSD would do. so they just make a bite sleeve/suit and put it on a person to do the testing.

it wouldnt bother me one bit to not be able to register working lines with AKC..its just a paper. some people are real into pedigrees as i think people always have the thought in the back of there head of "what if i want to breed." then they have to know where the pup comes from. when it come to getting a young dog old enough to OFA and he comes out with no health issues, thats a different story as long as the dog has the temperment and nerves.

[lcht2]

Originally Posted By: Timber1You forgot to tell us what the standards are. Is it the smaller European GSD working lines, be it the UK, Belgium or Germany, the American lines, or the show dogs. Or the big US guys, breed exclusively because of size.

we all know where we can find the standards. it wouldnt matter what my opinion would be as everyone has theres. if you really want it then i would say the standard wouldn't be size. it would be the all out temperment, nerve, and drives and of course health of the dog. maybe its just me but im not much of a showline fan. watched them work and im not impressed. the GSD was bread as a working dog and why they are being altered into gentle show dogs is beyond me..

[lhczth]

Originally Posted By: selzer It does not test German Shepherds for what the dogs are bred to do. Sorry. German Shepherds were bred to herd sheep. There is no herding test in the Schutzhund training.

The German Shepherd Dog was developed FROM herding dogs (and fancy dogs and livestock guardian dogs) to be a utilitarian working dog. They were NOT bred just to herd sheep. This is a fallacy.

In Germany the dog must have a minimum of a SchH1, IPO1 or HGH (herding title); hip rating of a3; elbow rating of c; and a breed survey (which requires a conformation rating of a G and an AD) in order to breed.

BTW, even the HGH contains some protection work since these dogs are expected to protect their handlers. They are not collies.

[SunCzarina]

The only way any of this is going to change is if the public is educated as to why a breed survey is necessary. Why hip ratings on ADULT dogs are necessary. etc etc.

Then all the bad breeders are shamed out of business.

How to do this, I dunno.

Originally Posted By: lhczth In Germany the dog must have a minimum of a SchH1, IPO1 or HGH (herding title); hip rating of a3; elbow rating of c; and a breed survey (which requires a conformation rating of a G and an AD) in order to breed.

I thought it was in order to have a sanctioned, registrable breeding?

We all know people breed unregistered dogs here - there was someone here not long ago breeding 2 rescues and selling the puppies for $350 as purebred but registrable. His excuse was he creates nice dogs for hardworking families who want a PB but don't want to pay for the piece of paper (I've met more than a few of that personality.)

[selzer]

Ihczth, You are right, the dogs were originally created out of sheep herding dogs to be able to herd sheep and be a war-dog. This was before police dogs and seeing-eye dogs.

My point was that Schutzhund does not test the dog for herding ability at all, and I am not sure if it really tests a dog's ability to be a war dog. It is the best example of an all around test in the US. But I do not see it as the only measure that could be used to indicate whether a dog is breedworthy.

If you truly wanted to test the bravery of a dog for herding purposes, it would probably be a dog fight that would do that. I have to remember if my dogs do get into a tussel that what these dogs were bred to be would include taking out a marauding wolf, coyote, or dog before it molested its sheep.

There are people that think that Schutzhund titles are the number 1 indicator of breedworthiness, given health checks pan out. Other people think a championship given health checks pan out are the best indicator of who should be bred. If we appeal to the law to make these decisions, a lot of excellent dogs will not be bred, and and lot of people will be left out. The poorly bred, weak nerved pups will continue to pile up.

I do not see an SV or an AKC or the Canadian Kennel Club papers as being worthless unless you are going to breed. Knowing who is behind your dog can give you an idea of what it can do before you buy it. There are a lot of other reasons as well. If you have a dog without papers, you cannot guarantee that it is a pure-bred dog.