Potential Pup Advice

[Super10lbz]

Hey all, i think this might have gotten lost in my previous post but i am looking at some pups this weekend. Though i am digging into understading what exactly i am looking at here are the what they are. How are these? These are from Vom Master Kennel in SouthWest florida, Owners have been very hands on over the phone and email.
Just looking for for gsd that will be protective and great family pet with my young kids and i do get full bredding rights, not sure if thats a big deal cause i am not sure if i even plan to do so.
Thanks

Puppies are 2-3 VA3, SchH3, KKL1 Negus vom Holtkamper See
3-4 VA1, SchH3, KKL1 Zamp vom Thermodos

[sagelfn]

If you are being sold a pet quality dog DO NOT BREED IT! If you do not know if you are getting a "good" pup or if you should buy this one..it's not a dog that needs to be bred because YOU do not know enough about breeding. Please get the idea of breeding out of your head until you have a lot of experience.

http://www.vommasterkennel.com/

Nothing on their website impresses me. They buy puppies from titled parents and OFA them- OFA not listed on all dogs. No titles on their breeding dogs. Not a breeder I would buy from. Do not like that they sell with full registration.

Not a breeder I would buy from or recommend. If you are looking for West German Showlines there are much better options out there. Are you only looking in Florida?

[Super10lbz]

Well i do think you have to start somewhere if you do plan to breed. Not everyone is a pro over night. I build race cars as a hobby and needless to i didnt learn and understand it overnight. Hence why i am on the site to learn and inderstand. I am mainly looking for gsd that wont give me the heartache i had with my previous gsd which was a pound dog, though the best dog i owned he was a nightmare health wise. This is the main reason i am willing to pay more for a dog with what i hope has better bloodlines, no plans to show etc. I honeslty dont know that i will ever breed but for the price of $750 i feel getting full paperwork seems like a very good and fair deal. I have no problems hearing everyones thoughts. Not looking to spend $1500 liek most have told me i need to spend. I had a great gsd from a pound for 100 bucks just broke my heart putting him down at 7 years old due to health issues.

Thanks and advice is appreciated

[sagelfn]

Good show line dogs run $2000+ Good working lines run $1200+

Starting somewhere means getting a dog and learning about the breed. Put some titles on it. Learn temperaments, bloodlines, learn genetics, learn how to pick studs, etc.. It does not mean buy a dog and breed it. Learn some stuff on the fly. Once you learn the stuff you will know what dog to buy is breedworthy.

$750 is an expensive pet not a breeding bitch. Please do not breed. You only need full registration if you will breed or show in conformation. If your dog is just going to be a family pet and maybe do some activities you do not need full registration.

What health issue did your dog die from? Does this breeder do any available testing to rule out health issues in their dogs? Do they do anything to prove the dogs are of solid temperament?

[Super10lbz]

I appreciate the advice. I have owned all GSD dogs but none more than pound dogs. My recent GSD had to be put down due to addisions and hips.

So your saying i am better off getting a $300 shepherd off craigslist? Cause i can find tons of these with akc regsitration but no other paperwork.

Vom Master guarantees hips and elbows for a year and the pedigree looks pretty good for a real nice family dog and "potentially" to breed.

Thanks

[4TheDawgies]

full registration will be of absolutely no value to you unless you intend to show, work, and breed your dog.

Breeding your dog should NOT be done unless the first two (show and/or work) is done. Not only done as in active in, but done as in titled in.

You need to not only do THOSE things prior to breeding, But you need to health test the dog for multiple health problems prone in German Shepherds to make sure You don't create the very dog that gave you heart ache from the health issues!

If you do not do those things, how do you intend to prove your dog is of ANY value to the German Shepherd gene pool? You will only cater to puppy buyers who have no idea about dogs and just want a german shepherd for the novelty. Those are the same people that figure out quickly a GSD is not something they want and they throw it into a shelter for someone else to handle the problem.

A responsible breeder takes years of learning about dogs and raising a few to understand the breed completely. Then it takes years of mentoring under another breeder to learn from them, if not multiple breeders to get unbiased opinions. It means learning how to recognize structure, compare it to the standard and eventually know how to recognize good from bad, and breed for better. Thats simply the cosmetics of the dog.
then comes the learning about dogs. First you have to understand dog body language and communication. Then you have to learn what your specific dog is saying all the time. Specifically during work. What drives is your dog working in, does your dog WANT to work? Does your dog have the natural instincts to do the work the breed was meant to do?

Learn to recognize the difference between lines, types, etc. Which line do you prefer? why? What are you going to do to improve those lines?

Can you take a step back from your dogs and pick out not only the good aspects of the dog but the faults. Can you step on kennel blindness and weigh the good and bad of a dog and decide if its breed worthy. will you take the time to evaluate which dog is a good match for which dog and why?

Do you know how to whelp a litter? Do you know the complications of whelping a litter? Are you willing to risk loosing the mother and the puppies in whelp due to complications? do you have the funds to support the mother in case of emergency in whelp?

do you realize that breeding does not earn money when you do it responsibly.

Breeding takes a person who cares about the breed and bettering the dogs and the gene pool. To continue to supply the next generation with a good dog to keep them going.
Breeding is not throwing two dogs together in the backyard because they look pretty and they like to run really fast for the ball during fetch.....


Please do research before considering breeding.

It will not only do yourself a huge favor, but it will do your dog, the rest of us breed fanciers, and most importantly the BREED OF GERMAN SHEPHERD DOGS a huge favor.

[sagelfn]

I'm not saying you're better off with a shelter or rehome dog. Though a good rescue is always a good choice

I'm saying this breeder isn't great. I would rather spend a little more and buy a dog from a reputable breeder. $1200+ for a healthy stable dog that will live with me for 12+ years is not much.

A 1yr hip/elbow guarantee isn't good. OFA can't be done until 24 months because a lot can change between 1 & 2 years.

The pedigree is decent IMO but the sire and dam have not proved they represent the pedigree by earning titles. Not every dog out of a litter is worthy of breeding. There is much much more to breeding than having good pedigrees.

[4TheDawgies]

Originally Posted by Super10lbz

I appreciate the advice. I have owned all GSD dogs but none more than pound dogs. My recent GSD had to be put down due to addisions and hips.

So your saying i am better off getting a $300 shepherd off craigslist? Cause i can find tons of these with akc regsitration but no other paperwork.

Vom Master guarantees hips and elbows for a year and the pedigree looks pretty good for a real nice family dog and "potentially" to breed.

Thanks

no one ever told you to get a $300 shepherd off craigslist. Please re read and understand that the other poster is suggesting you find a responsible breeder whose intentions are breeding for the better or maintaining a good shepherd dog.

** removed by Admin. Breeder bashing is not allowed on this site and negative comments like this must be made in private. **

My $500 dog who came from a back yard breeder came with a 1 year hip and elbow guarantee. Do you think she would actually follow through with that? She wants money and nothing more.

not to mention a guarantee means nothing unless you are willing to give up your dog after its lived with you for two years, finally gets its xrays and they come back as hip dysplacia or Elbow dysplacia.


There are good kennels, producing good dogs, at affordable prices. You have to look around. Do not settle on something just because its convenient, the puppies are ready now, or its cheaper.

Do your research. We are here to help you. But if you are not willing to take the constructive criticism, then you will not learn.

[Super10lbz]

Though i am looking for advice from a gsd community i have a feeling i am running into advice from the "pros" no different do i respond when i talk to people just understanding engines and racecars. I forget that people want to learn and grow but at times people who have been doing this for a long time forget where they were one day. My gsd's over the past 20 years get all the love and attention, best healthcare, food, activities and facilities but i am trying to understand titles and the breed even further but i feel amost as if i am not getting advice but attacked by the "pros" who forget that we all start somewhere. Anyone can buy a 5k dog, breed it and act like an expert. But i want a great family dog FIRST and then explore breeding "if" i bought a dog that is "breedable" and i feel i understand what i am doing not just running into it blind.

Thanks again

[Super10lbz]

The last 2 posts make perfect sense and exactly the opionions i was looking for. The first few felt like an attack. lol

Thanks