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Old 08-18-2014, 05:35 PM   #11 (permalink)
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As mentioned the board has a "No Breeder Bashing" rule, so I removed all name and geographical references to the breeder. People may PM the OP if they want more info.

(Admin hat off - board member hat on

I agree with the other though - blaming the breeder for such minor issues is misguided. There are no guarantees with a puppy, they are living things, genetics can be surprising. When you bought the pup, you agreed to the contract, can't blame the breeder for that now.
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Old 08-18-2014, 05:41 PM   #12 (permalink)
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When my dog was DX with left HD and bilateral elbow ED I re-read my contract. It is very clear what the guarantees would be. I did not expect anything outside of the contract. I also discussed it with my breeder. Not about getting a refund (which I never expected), but how to manage it to the best of my ability. My breeder was wonderful. However, I did not call acting angry and demanding things. I understand they breed doing what they can to prevent these things, but they can still pop up. I don't blame the breeder for that. Other puppies from the same litter are fine and one of the puppies from the first breeding is titled and showing. The genetics come together in every puppy differently.
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Old 08-18-2014, 06:17 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I am not here to bash a breeder even though she preached that she has never had any dogs with genetic problems. The ears have been looked at by other breeders and a vet. It has been determined to be genetic and not environment. We don't have any other dogs to split the tips of her ears. Returning her is not an option at this point and the breeder knows it. I simply believe I should get a 50% refund. I will have to buy another dog to breed when I can afford it. Having multiple issues like this should not be simply accepted as "oh well, it's a dog and I'm fine paying full price for a champion line GSD with multiple genetic defects." If I have to buy an older dog so I don't have this happen again I will. I can say that the people that have asked me about where I got my dog were not surprised to find I had problems.
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Old 08-18-2014, 06:25 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyDogGinger View Post
I am not here to bash a breeder even though she preached that she has never had any dogs with genetic problems. The ears have been looked at by other breeders and a vet. It has been determined to be genetic and not environment. We don't have any other dogs to split the tips of her ears. Returning her is not an option at this point and the breeder knows it. I simply believe I should get a 50% refund. I will have to buy another dog to breed when I can afford it. Having multiple issues like this should not be simply accepted as "oh well, it's a dog and I'm fine paying full price for a champion line GSD with multiple genetic defects." If I have to buy an older dog so I don't have this happen again I will. I can say that the people that have asked me about where I got my dog were not surprised to find I had problems.
Did your contract say they give refunds? My contract clearly said no refunds. They would replace the dog if he had crippling HD/ED, but thankfully he does not. The contract is a legal document that needs to be honored by both sides. If it doesn't state anything about refunds you should no feel entitled to one.
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Last edited by trcy; 08-18-2014 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 08-18-2014, 06:36 PM   #15 (permalink)
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If you bought her to breed and she's not breed quality but the breeder will offer a refund, then I don't get the big deal. Return her for the refund or the replacement and hope to get a breedable dog. This happens all the time, most dogs are not breed quality. Getting a puppy lessens your chances even more. I do not know any breeders, good or bad, that allow a buyer to ask for a 50% refund AND keep their dog. It would be one thing if the dog had a health problem that was costly, but bad ear tips, missing teeth, and a gay or curled tail are aesthetic.
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Old 08-18-2014, 07:01 PM   #16 (permalink)
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The thing is that it doesnt matter what you believe or what the breeder believe. I guess what matters is the contract
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Old 08-18-2014, 07:05 PM   #17 (permalink)
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If you are interested in becoming a breeder, I would find a breeder to mentor under. GSDs are incredibly complicated dogs, and the lines and genetics are intricate.

My GSD breeder friend (now retired) spent decades learning about lines, percentages, rearing, anatomy, genetics, temperament and its fluidity, learning stages, on and on and ON. She bred for thirty years, and she could list offhand what lines matched hers, what genetic faults were present in her lines (ALL lines have SOME faults that pop up, ALL lines, period), what lines would correct what problems but at what cost.

Some breeders will offer co-ownership, and if I was seriously interested in 'trying out' breeding, that is the direction I would look. That said, most breeders are very VERY picky about who they will co-own with--as they should be. Most won't do it at all.

But, if I decided I wanted to, that is how I would approach it. Mentor under someone with forty years experience, get their advice, follow their advice, etc. (I hasten to add that the co-ownership contracts that I know of involve the co-owner keeping an adult bitch and one pup from the litter. Not, you know, making any kind of profit. Certainly not deciding on the stud or bitch--maybe helping to decide, but not deciding entirely.)
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Old 08-18-2014, 07:21 PM   #18 (permalink)
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OP said "I will have to buy another dog to breed when I can afford it."

You will?
In all my years I have never heard of a genetic split ear tip.
Your complaints are focusing on the cosmetics of the dog.

Temperament and other qualities not even considered?
If the dog had the tooth , and the tail carriage, and the ears were different , how would that dog rate as a GOOD breeding candidate.
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Old 08-18-2014, 07:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Breeding a German Shepherd should only be done when a dog is outstanding, has proven itself with training and titles. The OP wants to breed a dog to have an activity with her child. Faults aside, I don't see anything posted that would indicate this is a good idea. Breeders spend years perfecting their lines. When you talk to successful GSD breeders most started out with a dog that was so outstanding for the breed they wanted to duplicate that. They don't go out and buy a puppy, then assume because it was expensive it will be a good prospect for breeding. Breeding just because one wants to is irresponsible. This isn't a criticism of the OP but I hope is a learning tool. Please learn more about the breed and pros and cons of breeding any two dogs before making a mistake.
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Old 08-18-2014, 07:45 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlowe View Post
If you are interested in becoming a breeder, I would find a breeder to mentor under. GSDs are incredibly complicated dogs, and the lines and genetics are intricate.

My GSD breeder friend (now retired) spent decades learning about lines, percentages, rearing, anatomy, genetics, temperament and its fluidity, learning stages, on and on and ON. She bred for thirty years, and she could list offhand what lines matched hers, what genetic faults were present in her lines (ALL lines have SOME faults that pop up, ALL lines, period), what lines would correct what problems but at what cost.

Some breeders will offer co-ownership, and if I was seriously interested in 'trying out' breeding, that is the direction I would look. That said, most breeders are very VERY picky about who they will co-own with--as they should be. Most won't do it at all.

But, if I decided I wanted to, that is how I would approach it. Mentor under someone with forty years experience, get their advice, follow their advice, etc. (I hasten to add that the co-ownership contracts that I know of involve the co-owner keeping an adult bitch and one pup from the litter. Not, you know, making any kind of profit. Certainly not deciding on the stud or bitch--maybe helping to decide, but not deciding entirely.)
This is the best advice--find a good mentor.
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