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-   -   Black Listed To Buy? (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/453153-black-listed-buy.html)

Fuzon 05-22-2014 12:32 PM

Black Listed To Buy?
 
So about a month ago i decided I wanted a Working line Puppy, I did the logical thing and read a bit on the forums and mass emailed different recommended breeders. All was going well everyone was super friendly and very willing to help out. I started my search with DDR dogs only untill i realized thats not what i was looking for in terms of aesthetics and drive. After further inquires i narrowed it down to the mix of DDr/Czech as it provided what I think I'm looking for and the general consensus on here was that its the best of both worlds.

Fast forward a little bit and i shrug a breeder the wrong way and goes absolutely 360 emails all her breeder colleagues asks them if i inquired to them about pups. These breeders acknowledged that i have and somehow informs them that we had a falling out and that i should not be trusted or what have you long story short all breeders stop responding.

i do admit i was looking for long coat and pretty adamant on looking for one with a certain set of aesthetics. I figure if the dog comes from good lineages, temp and drive are all going to be of high prestige therefore i am allowed to have a certain set of aesthtic choices? I mean its 15 year investment of time an money might as well get what you want correct? But guess she took it the wrong way.

Anyone want to chime on how i could avoided this fiasco? and if i was in the wrong for being like most a uninformed consumer.

Jax08 05-22-2014 12:37 PM

I don't know why a breeder would be mad just because you were talking to other breeders unless you weren't honest about it.

As far as the physical characteristics, I dont' think that should have caused an issue either if the breeder had those in their lines and you were willing to wait.

So, is there more to this story?

Anubis_Star 05-22-2014 12:41 PM

I agree with you you should get what you want in a dog, physically and mentally. Coateds are harder to come by in the WL world. Really your best bet is to get first pick of a repeat breeding that has thrown Coateds before for the highest chance of getting one.

But what if the single coated in the breeding is low drive? I think it is your every right to want to look elsewhere. But I've yet to know a breeder that will refund a deposit if you move from the litter. Perhaps they'll move your deposit to another litter.

No I don't think you wanting a coated dog is wrong. Plenty of WL dogs produce them. Berlin has several coated full siblings. But maybe it's the way you asked (demanded?) For it? You can't guarantee a black sable coated female with high drive, for example. That's just going to be hard to find. Berlin's litter had a black sable coated female. The next breeding had a red sable coated male.

I did not want a black or bicolor dog, I've had my heart set on a sable for YEARS and I was paying good money. I would of been willing to walk away from the litter I was on hold for if that was all that was available. And I probably would of lost my deposit. Actually, I'm 99% certain berlins breeder would of moved my deposit. But I can't guarantee that. And you can't count on that.

Maybe there's another reason the breeder didn't think you were a good fit? I know several breeders that have numerous ddr/Czech breedings and I can't imagine they would do something like that just because you stated you wanted a coated dog.

All you can do is be honest to the breeder,

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Kaimeju 05-22-2014 12:43 PM

Do you know exactly what you did to rub her the wrong way? Do you have any clues from her emails about why she might have been upset? Also, how did you know she emailed all her colleagues? Did they say she told them not to work with you, or did she tell you, or...?

Not questioning the veracity of your story at all, I'm just trying to figure out what happened.

I think it is possible that you got pegged as a "certain sort" of person by seeming to prioritize aesthetics over drives and temperament. I could see how maybe a working line breeder might infer from that that you don't really know what you want in terms of the latter and may not know what you're getting into. But that's just pure speculation.

I guess my final thought is if you really want a long coat, why would you look at breeders who may not have any?

Fuzon 05-22-2014 12:50 PM

In the middle of my search like i said I did switch from full ddr to a czech mix.
So when she went to ask what i asked them what i was looking for the initial breeders had mentioned DDr only.This I'm sure made it appear of myself being dishonest on what i was looking for( I'm subject to change my preference as i gather info correct?)THe breeder i had initially contacted helped me figure out i wasn't a fan of the blocky heads and probably wouldn't be a good fit for me. I decided i wanted a czech mix and stated it in an email however the same breeder thought i still wanted DDR, therefore it seems liked she just wanted to get the sale or what have you, least on my end through email.
I mentioned this to the breeder who got mad at me and i think thats what added to the disagreement, apparently she did not like that I described that I was being "pushed" to get a certain dog and being that they are great friends caused. Long story short she felt i had described her colleagues in a negative light.

martemchik 05-22-2014 12:53 PM

PM me the breeder? Wouldn't be surprised if its someone I'm thinking of considering you're in Chicago and they do DDR dogs.

Some people are just like that...I don't think anyone has a broad enough reach to "black list" you so I wouldn't worry about that. I'm sure you can find a dog. I don't know of any DDR/Czech dogs that I would recommend, but I can give you a few good breeders to check out. I'm always confused as to why people focus on those large categories...someone that doesn't have experience with dogs, won't even notice the difference, and unfortunately, there is no guarantee your dog will meet those broad descriptors that have been marketed over the internet. Most people will tell you that there isn't a DDR dog anymore. The people that use DDR to market are pretty much saying...dark sable, big head. Doesn't say anything about working ability or temperament.

ApselBear 05-22-2014 12:56 PM

If you have your communications in emails, and you're truly being mishandled by the angry breeder, then just try the other breeders and offer to share your emails if they are hesitant because of the grumpy breeder?

Fuzon 05-22-2014 01:00 PM

One of her other colleagues absolutely refused to breed for coat because it was a fault. It was through email mind you, so i kind of got the vibe that i offended by asking for coat. This was also mentioned to lets call her Breeder "A"(original dispute)

She told me in an email she reached out to all her colleagues and asked them about me and received different feedback. And i would say she would have every time since they where all contacted in succession of my search as my preferences changed what i was looking for did as well. This lead her to say i cannot be trusted and could not sell me a dog. SHe said she doesn't tell her colleagues not to sell dogs to anyone, but that she would refuse to sell me one. Shortly there after all other emails from the breeders stopped from them to me. Well she might not have told them not to sell, but something happened because no one responds to my emails or inquires at this point in time.

martemchik 05-22-2014 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzon (Post 5552609)
I mentioned this to the breeder who got mad at me and i think thats what added to the disagreement, apparently she did not like that I described that I was being "pushed" to get a certain dog and being that they are great friends caused. Long story short she felt i had described her colleagues in a negative light.

Are you doing most of your research online? Using the "general description" that is usually spread on the internet about this line or that line? That could be a huge problem...

Don't take offense to this...but you have no idea what you're talking about. You're reading things, not seeing them. You think you know, but you probably don't. If I showed you two dogs, just their temperaments, would you be able to tell me what "line" they are? Unlikely. I can't even do that. I can tell somewhat based on looks, but even that can get sketchy.

So when you start spewing "internet research" to people that actually work their dogs and have been doing this for years...its almost comical. And some people will get angry. If this breeder has spent time emailing you back and forth, thinking you're a customer, now you tell them you read some article and changed your mind...I can see how they could get mad.

Fuzon 05-22-2014 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martemchik (Post 5552673)
Are you doing most of your research online? Using the "general description" that is usually spread on the internet about this line or that line? That could be a huge problem...

Don't take offense to this...but you have no idea what you're talking about. You're reading things, not seeing them. You think you know, but you probably don't. If I showed you two dogs, just their temperaments, would you be able to tell me what "line" they are? Unlikely. I can't even do that. I can tell somewhat based on looks, but even that can get sketchy.

So when you start spewing "internet research" to people that actually work their dogs and have been doing this for years...its almost comical. And some people will get angry. If this breeder has spent time emailing you back and forth, thinking you're a customer, now you tell them you read some article and changed your mind...I can see how they could get mad.

That is probably a major factor, i really was clueless when it came to the generalization of the lines. A lot of that is still seen on the forums some people will make a generalization about DDr or Czech OR west german and you will have people contradict that based of their own experience. I'm a first time GSD buyer so I can admit i have had no experience with any of the lines prior to my search and what i have read.


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