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-   -   help is this breeder legit? (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/442857-help-breeder-legit.html)

Fuzon 04-25-2014 12:26 PM

help is this breeder legit?
 
Presley German Shepherds - Home

The pedigrees don't look bad and the advertised price is cheaper than some of the highly recommended breeders.


Anyone have any input or experience with them?

Anubis_Star 04-25-2014 12:59 PM

There's a reason the dogs are cheap. I wouldn't touch this breeder with a 10 foot pole. Only 2 dogs have hips tested, and it's just a random mishmash of West german show lines and working lines.

I also avoid ANY breeder that states "we're breeding for the best pet". The german shepherd was never meant to be a watered down, soft pet. They're a working breed. And my working dog makes an AMAZING pet but that's because I love him for what he is and give him the training and exercise and working stimulation he needs.

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Anubis_Star 04-25-2014 01:03 PM

She also doesn't cover mild hip dysplasia because it "tends to cause no problems"? Are you kidding me? Tell that to my 7 year old boy that has mild unilateral dysplasia, arthritic build up, muscle wasting, and slight hind end limping.

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Liesje 04-25-2014 01:07 PM

There are plenty of west German show line kennels that are well respected and breed dogs with health certifications, titles, etc. I would recommend Team Huerta Hof in your area.

kbella999 04-25-2014 01:11 PM

As Anubis pointed out, my first thought was most of the dogs are not hip/elbow tested. Having a dog (rescue dog) just diagnosed with HD, I'd run far away from this breeder. It is not fun seeing how much pain HD causes.

Fuzon 04-25-2014 01:29 PM

It seems like the dogs prior to her ownership had titles and testing.
Assuming they were line breed doesn't that guarantee similar health in the pupps?
If they have bad hips by Beeing bred young doesn't that not count as a genetic flaw?

Sorry like I said I'm a newbie. I'm not trying to argue for this particular breeder, I just want to know the thought process you all have .

Anubis_Star 04-25-2014 01:39 PM

Even the best breeders will produce dogs with hip dysplasia. Nothing is a guarantee. By not testing her dogs she is greatly increasing the chance of producing dogs with dysplasia. It's not like DM - it's genetic, if parents are DM clear offspring are. My Berlin is DM clear through breeding. But hip dysplasia is not like that. There is NO reason not to test except for being lazy and cheap.

As well she doesn't even fully cover against hip dysplasia, so I'm guessing she's producing a fair number of mild dogs. To say "mild dysplasia causes no real harm" is just BS.

Doesn't even touch the other ethics of her breeding program. There should be a goal and purpose behind your breeding. "Pet dogs" are not that legit purpose in my mind. You can go to the shelter and find a pet. If you're breeding a working breed you should be producing working pets. No titles, no clearances, nothing showing these dogs have drive or a stable temperament.

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Gwenhwyfair 04-25-2014 01:43 PM

To add on to Anubis Star's comments above - The breeders who are really serious will watch for which mating combinations have the tendency to produce HD and avoid matching them. There is also the ZW score that breeders are using to help avoid HD in future litters. I'll post a link with a good explanation of it below. That's sort of the nutshell explanation.

On this breeder, you mentioned the lower price. I'd suggest waiting a few months and saving up some more money so you can look at other breeders who are investing more in their dogs health, training and showing.

Note: I'm posting this because the breeder has a good write up about hips and ZW scores:
Home of West Coast German Shepherd Dogs - HD Zuchtwert Information



Quote:

Originally Posted by Fuzon (Post 5430905)
It seems like the dogs prior to her ownership had titles and testing.
Assuming they were line breed doesn't that guarantee similar health in the pupps?
If they have bad hips by Beeing bred young doesn't that not count as a genetic flaw?

Sorry like I said I'm a newbie. I'm not trying to argue for this particular breeder, I just want to know the thought process you all have .


wolfstraum 04-25-2014 01:46 PM

Lots of dogs - so IMO - a pretty commercial kennel with a higher profit margin because they have a whole bunch of females and males and cross them wtihout having to go outside to pay for vet work and stud fees. Some breeders I know will be horrified to see pups from their dogs in this type of "program" (the " " indicates sarcasm BYW)...

Haven't had time to go through OFA to see if any are listed...but this is a fairly high volume commercial operation hitting all the marketing buttons....JMHO

Lee

Kaimeju 04-25-2014 01:46 PM

>Assuming they were line breed doesn't that guarantee similar health in the pupps?

Actually line breeding can double up on bad genes as easily as good genes. Line breeding is only a positive thing if the breeder really knows what they are doing. This person has such a random bunch of pedigrees thrown together that I doubt she has a firm grasp of their genetics. They actually don't look like very solid pedigrees to me, and I'm not that knowledgeable.

>If they have bad hips by Beeing bred young doesn't that not count as a genetic flaw?

A reputable breeder stands behind their dogs, period. Making excuses for why hip dysplasia may occur is something you should consider a red flag. Because hip dysplasia is polygenic, it is not enough that one or three dogs in a pedigree were screened. The genes can still be passed down. Two OFA Good parents can produce dysplastic dogs if the rest of the dogs in the pedigree aren't sound.

It is also a red flag that she brags about her dogs being bred to police K-9s. Most units would not allow their dogs to be bred for profit. That's sketchy.

Unfortunately as breeders with less skill and experience learn that European bloodlines are desirable, they have begun importing dogs from Europe already titled to use as breeding machines. I think there are legitimate reasons to import stud dogs as well, but this person does not have clear goals or a grasp of why they are using certain bloodlines. I would avoid them.


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