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-   -   Is this breeder right? (http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/choosing-breeder/423866-breeder-right.html)

SARpup 03-13-2014 03:24 PM

Is this breeder right?
 
So I have been talking to a breeder about a dog for my daughter, not a GSD. She wants to show in confirmation and then later agility. But she is a teenager and may very well outgrow that desire! Plus I do not know how expensive it is to show and title a confirmation dog!
This breeder has nice dogs and takes pride in her lines. I know she wants her dogs titled. I was upfront with her and said I could not promise that and gave her my reasons. She seemed okay with selling as a pet possible show home.
We talked of payment and the pet dog would be $1800. She wants the dog to leave soon because all of his litter mates are leaving this weekend I guess. I explained I could not pay the entire sum right now and would have to make payments, she might be okay with that, how about I put it on a CC? I can AFTER my tax return comes through in the next week or so. But not by this weekend.
Hubby is military and we get paid Friday I could put a deposit down on him and pay the balance when the tax return comes. Then travel the 6 hours to come get him.
Now her co owner of the littler doesn't want to sell to us because we are military and what if we have to move and can't take the dog and what if it needs and emergency operation to save its life and we can't afford to do it.
I kind of understand and those are both valid points BUT isn't that MY problem? Shouldn't I be the one that determines if getting a puppy is right for me?
Maybe I am totally wrong and they are right I shouldn't have a dog!
Anybody in CA want a 13 week old GSD puppy?!

LoveEcho 03-13-2014 03:42 PM

Slow down. Those are valid concerns for a breeder to have, IMO. Their responsibility isn't to the customer, it's to the dog. Good breeders go through a lot to ensure a good match for their pups.... and really, they're the ones that determine that, because they know the dogs better than the customer. And, customers are not always realistic about their expectations or capabilities. Which brings me to the other concern.

The other concern is... you have a 13 week GSD and are hoping to get another puppy next week? Why doesn't your daughter work with the pup you have, dabble in showing and agility and see if she likes it, and then go from there?

martemchik 03-13-2014 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SARpup (Post 5192810)
Now her co owner of the littler doesn't want to sell to us because we are military and what if we have to move and can't take the dog and what if it needs and emergency operation to save its life and we can't afford to do it.
I kind of understand and those are both valid points BUT isn't that MY problem? Shouldn't I be the one that determines if getting a puppy is right for me?
Maybe I am totally wrong and they are right I shouldn't have a dog!
Anybody in CA want a 13 week old GSD puppy?!

Sadly, all of the things the co-breeder brought up are true in some respect. Breeders care about their dogs and their puppies, and if she does end up needing some emergency vet care and you can't afford it so you just let the dog pass even though it could survive and live a full and healthy life...it's kind of an avoidable problem if you do just sell that dog to someone that won't be as cash strapped.

It's not that you don't deserve a dog, but they have the right to sell to who they want and its not wrong to be a little worried when someone has problems paying for the upfront price of the dog. On top of that price, you realize there is probably a good $300-$400 of vetting in the first few months as well.

We've had a few military families that had to rehome dogs within months either due to finances or because they got moved to a base that doesn't allow dogs or finances got tight.

Just a warning...dogs are way more expensive than you can imagine.

Titling/training will cost a lot. A weekend of trialing will run you $80 minimum.

SARpup 03-13-2014 03:48 PM

Yes I understand, I am just venting.
My daughter has her heart set on the other breed, she has wanted one for years and we are finally settled enough that I felt okay getting one. The GSD puppy was a spur of the moment decision, he is a rescue.
She has been doing agility with a trainer for a few months now and has been working the trainers dog, I wanted to make sure she was committed before getting her a dog. She started handling class yesterday with some professional handlers/trainers and has been attending any shows I will take her to.
I completely understand the breeder has the right to put the dog where they feel most comfortable I just got frustrated after all that that the co breeder wont sell to military.

LoveEcho 03-13-2014 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SARpup (Post 5193034)
Yes I understand, I am just venting.
My daughter has her heart set on the other breed, she has wanted one for years and we are finally settled enough that I felt okay getting one. The GSD puppy was a spur of the moment decision, he is a rescue.
She has been doing agility with a trainer for a few months now and has been working the trainers dog, I wanted to make sure she was committed before getting her a dog. She started handling class yesterday with some professional handlers/trainers and has been attending any shows I will take her to.
I completely understand the breeder has the right to put the dog where they feel most comfortable I just got frustrated after all that that the co breeder wont sell to military.

I hear ya :( The military bias stinks (been there)... a few bad apples always seem to ruin it for the responsible families.

It sounds like your daughter is off to a great start, I hope she has fun! She can still do agility classes, etc with your pup. Having two pups at once is an unholy nightmare, though. It sounds as though the co-owner may (misguidedly) be saying the military aspect is her main concern, when it's your financial situation/having another puppy/etc- things that are a little more "sensitive" that she doesn't want to outright say.

SARpup 03-13-2014 04:02 PM

I understand the titling and training is $$$ That is why I told her upfront that I could not promise the dog would get titled. I explained to her that the dog would in essence be my daughters bestest friend and go about doing everything my daughter does and just have fun and we would do our best to title him. She was fine with this and thus the selling as a "pet possible show" as opposed to the extra $400 he would cost if he were a "show dog"
All was well until I mentioned military. Part of the reason I never tried to get her a dog before was because of the military but we are in a position now that we are stable enough to get dogs. I explained this to her.
Like I said, I am just frustrated! But partially not because I didn't want a puppy from this breeder in the first place, they are really a "show" line and I want more of a "working" line for my daughter because these dogs have a lot of the same problems GSDs do and she wants to do some hard playing with her dog, I feel it would be better for her to have a working line. She wants a puppy ASAP and felt these would be great! I have no proof that show lines wont be as good I just have opinions!
I just didn't think it was very nice to get her all excited and then deny her because of her Dad serving the country! She has a hard enough time as it is not seeing her Dad half the year, now some people wont sell her a dog she so desperately wants because of it!

martemchik 03-13-2014 04:10 PM

Go somewhere else...seriously.

Sorry, daughter wants the dog right now doesn't matter. It's a 10+ year commitment, she can wait a month or two more.

If she's into agility, I'm assuming you're looking at the breeds that are good at agility...those breeds aren't rare and you should easily be able to find another solid breeder in your area that has puppies or will have puppies soon. You're not really in the most unpopulated area in the world...

And yes...it is the bad eggs that give the rest of you the bad reputation. But as a breeder, you have to protect your dogs. And if this is a good breeder...they shouldn't have any problem finding another home that they believe is better than yours for their dog. Sadly, the good breeders are in no shortage of demand for their dogs, they definitely have plenty of choices on who to sell their dogs to.

holland 03-13-2014 04:16 PM

A while back I took a show handling class-there was a breeder there of terriers and a lot of the kids there had dogs from her breeding program -she was very involved with showing her dogs and helping the owners-in reading your thread -there may be breeders out there who would be happy to let your daughter handle their dogs -rather than buying a dog to show-it would give your daughter a lot of experience-just a thought

Liesje 03-13-2014 04:21 PM

In all my dealings with breeders they have expected the full payment of the puppy at the time of the purchase. I know some are willing to work something out, especially with people they know or trust (already have a history of good ownership and training/titling their dogs), but my expectation is to pay the full price up front and would not hold it against a breeder if they didn't want to take payment plans or options other than cash up front.

I'm not sure how much of a concern the military thing is, but I do know that if it's a good breeder, often there are reasons for the concern/hesitation. You may be different, but just be sensitive to the fact that they've most likely had some bad experiences in the past if there are reasons they won't sell to certain families/situations.

Ultimately the puppies are theirs to sell to whom they chose. I would actually be more concerned about a breeder not caring at all what the person planned to do with the dog or how they were going to pay for it and just selling a dog to any person with the cash.

SARpup 03-13-2014 04:26 PM

Yes the trainer/handler brought her a dog last night to class. They are who we got teh info on the breeder from. She enjoyed handling him but I understand it is not the same as having your own to live with and play with all the time.
I found someone who I wanted to get a pup from but she wont be breeding until her bitch comes into heat, she is thinking juneish so that puts the pups out to September. I am fine with that but daughter didn't want to wait. PLUS the last time she tried to breed her bitch it didn't take so no guarantees this one will either.
I will go elsewhere, again I was just venting my frustration! I guess I shouldn't be frustrated.


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