Well established and known examples of risks associated with byb (back yard breeders) - German Shepherd Dog Forums

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Old 02-28-2014, 12:44 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Well established and known examples of risks associated with byb (back yard breeders)

Well established and known examples of risks associated with byb (back yard breeders)

Since, I do not know all the associated and the established risks, I'm asking in a polite manner. Health, temperament, veterinary associated unexpected costs, basic liabilities and the percentage likelihood of getting a good solid animal as a pet, not meant for breeding would be the first questions.. I would like examples of..

Yes, I have $2000.00 + dollars to have invested in what I would have considered a near perfect animal. I also have the resources to care, feed, & train this animal for the entire life expectancy.

I think my problem with the 'bold face gsd community' is not a putdown. It comes from my upbringing, specifically from my father who instilled in me certain parameters of life, how to enjoy it, getting the most bang (happiness) from it and always' to stand on my own principles and never waiver. He died when I was 14 so he had to cram 50 years into less that 15 to make his mark.

In the 60s when I was young all there were is byb's in my community. I do remember the gsd's in my neighborhood. They most likely were flatter toplines, large heads a few sables and a few black and tans about 75 pounds, most were males. American bread shepherd's. I never saw a sloped topline in my teens.

I am going to include a video and I already know most member's here have already seen it.. They don't like it, but I will use this video to show American and German champions German Shepherd's from the 1940s to present, for those who don't know the evolution of the breed. It is not meant to create dissension, it is meant to be informative. I do not necessarily agree with everything the author of the video is implying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc-UsM-tivU

Sorry, if this is offensive to some...

Questions:

What percentage of top bloodlines are show champions ?
What percentage of top bloodlines are plush or coats ?
What percentage of top bloodlines are well balanced temperaments ?
What percentage of top bloodlines are at risk from attacks on family member's young & old as well as guests of the home who are not associated with the pack structure of the animal ?

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Old 02-28-2014, 01:04 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm not even sure how you would get those questions answered. Sounds like a long and involved task of research, compiling information and breaking it down into percentiles. Be sure to come back and post once you have that all done!
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Old 02-28-2014, 01:14 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Want GSDs that Look Like the Originals? Go here---->

Giantgermanshepherds.com

My Zeus has a giant head, a completely straight back parallel to the ground, exceptionally large bones and, when they're spread out when he's stretching, paws as large as a cup saucer, amber penetrating predatory eyes, strength of a horse, agility to match, ball drive that won't stop, extremely loyal and protective, so impressive to other dogs that strays run away, weighs more than 100 lbs...

...and he's the absolutely sweetest animal you ever wanted to meet.

AND HE'S STILL GROWING AT ONLY 16 MONTHS.

LF
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Old 03-07-2014, 02:22 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Sorry, I asked.. lol :o)...

I guess the questions I asked were just too complex. It's okay, the line-breeding, breeding for color and such has taken it's toll on the breed. I think my point was to prove a "BYB GSD" can be trained to do most anything and if the God's are permitting, maybe in 4 or more years the status quo will put the $2000.00 to $5000.00 - 8 week old puppies in a position where the breeder's overhead expenditures are no longer a factor. As I once indicated, in 1960 a pure bread GSD was just as good, if not better then today's GSD and cost about $25.00, so factor in inflation and you got your value..

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Old 03-07-2014, 02:36 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Someone with more knowledge can correct me, but I'm under the impression that the reason that BYBing GSDs is wrong is because they're playing russian roulette with recessive genes, and by combining the dogs willy-nilly they're taking a risk with the offspring that they wouldn't be taking if they knew exactly what they were doing, and producing. I could be wrong
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Old 03-07-2014, 03:06 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Of the three byb gsds I know two of them have hip displasia and the other is high strung to the point of neurotic and has skin issues. She is still quite young so we shall see how her hips hold out. Of the many, many, many 'american' style registered gsds I know (personally, I won't count the ones I know through their owners on the internet) not one has allergies, hip displasia, perianal fistulas, elbow issues, EPI. One is a little sharp but none have any major temperament issues.
I work in a pet supply store and the only gsds that I see that are sane and well mannered in public are from registered breeders that work their dogs. We have a local registered breeder who imports dogs from germany and sells 'top european bloodlines' and every one of their dogs I have seen is a high strung maniac. They do not work their dogs, just try to make a profit off of 'rare champion german heritage'.
IMO a registered dog, from a proven good kennel you have thoroughly researched is your best bet for a healthy, sane dog.
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Old 03-07-2014, 03:26 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Here is all the evidence you should ever need.

See if you can view a few pages of these images and still want to use a back yard breeder.

WARNING: the link includes graphic images showing the results of back yard breeding.


https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...u4xt0#imgdii=_
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Old 03-07-2014, 04:02 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Ugh...I got Zoe from a hobby breeder before I knew it was apparently a bad idea. Shame on me for being ignorant to the issues that can go along with such decisions. I think I'll skip the link :/

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Old 03-07-2014, 04:52 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longfisher View Post
Giantgermanshepherds.com

My Zeus has a giant head, a completely straight back parallel to the ground, exceptionally large bones and, when they're spread out when he's stretching, paws as large as a cup saucer, amber penetrating predatory eyes, strength of a horse, agility to match, ball drive that won't stop, extremely loyal and protective, so impressive to other dogs that strays run away, weighs more than 100 lbs...

...and he's the absolutely sweetest animal you ever wanted to meet.

AND HE'S STILL GROWING AT ONLY 16 MONTHS.

LF
I am not trying to cause any debate, but I have to make an observation... This probably doesn't apply to your dog, but the adult dogs on the Giant German Shepherds site pretty much all seem overweight. Hard to tell their true conformation... How are their hips and elbows? The website mentions that their dogs have good hips and don't, in general, produce dysplastic dogs, but the site doesn't list any OFA or Penn Hip certifications...

I have had very large GSDs in the past, I have also had medium-sized and small GSDs. I am not against large sizes, in fact, always enjoyed them, but, again, many of those dogs do not appear to have the frames sufficient for the weight they are carrying. The large GSDs I had were built to carry their weight, and they had well-defined waists and good muscle, without being thin.

I must say, though, from the photos on the website these dogs do appear to have good temperaments and seem to be well socialized.
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Old 03-07-2014, 05:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sehrgutcsg View Post
I guess the questions I asked were just too complex. It's okay, the line-breeding, breeding for color and such has taken it's toll on the breed. I think my point was to prove a "BYB GSD" can be trained to do most anything and if the God's are permitting, maybe in 4 or more years the status quo will put the $2000.00 to $5000.00 - 8 week old puppies in a position where the breeder's overhead expenditures are no longer a factor. As I once indicated, in 1960 a pure bread GSD was just as good, if not better then today's GSD and cost about $25.00, so factor in inflation and you got your value..


I would like to see your proof that BYB GSD from 1960 are better than the dogs we have today? Is that your subjective opinion based on dogs you knew in your neighborhood?

The problem with BYB is that they often fail to test their dogs, health test, temperament test, nerve. They have a good family dog, so they find another family dog and have puppies. Many of the puppies will be just fine family dogs.

But without an understanding of the genetics behind the dogs, you run the risk of a really poor genetic match, you get dogs with allergies, bad hips or elbows, in appropriately aggressive( which most uneducated families write off as "he's very protective of me), or that are shy and fearful.

Yes, these problems also crop up in well thought out breedings. Some dogs, no matter the research, do not end up meshing well phenotypically. But by using a breeder that does health screening, temperament screening, and understand the histories of all the dogs in a pairs pedigree, you can get a better understanding of what kind if puppy you will get.

I do agree that there are some very overpriced dogs, whose breeders look very legitimate, who trial, train, show their dogs, that produce bad dogs. Just because someone does not come across as a BYB, does not make them a good breeder either. Kennel blindness is rampant in any breed. Trust me I have seen it in person.

Being an educated buyer, truly understanding what YOU want in a GSD, being able to look at dogs and be honest about the traits you find important, is the best thing you can do.

If you want to breed your dog. That's up to you. If you want to breed your dog to your other dog, knock yourself out. But understand, no matter your moral stance in the issue, you are bringing new lives into the world, and selling them to families that will love them. So wouldn't you want to make sure that those families do not have to go through the heartache of a dog with sever allergies, bad temperaments, hip dysplasia. Don't you want to be able to say, "I have done everything I can to ensure that the parents if the puppy you are buying from me are healthy, free from orthopedic issues and a good dog, correct to the breed. I can't promise there won't be issues, but I tried my best to mitigate them. Enjoy your puppy for the rest if it's life?"


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