Need Advice on GSD Breeding...

[GSD<3er212]

Every one in concern of finding my pup's Dam... I searched for 2 hours last night and had no luck. but i found the email to her Dam's owner and going to be getting pictures of the Dam soon! Will post once i upload them!

[wolfstraum]

Whitedheim is the kennel name of Whited K-9 Services in Kent OH.....I have met owner a few times years ago, and knew people who bought and sold dogs from/to him....he keeps many many dogs - a few are titled, many imported, but mostly untitled and used to have a calendar on his website listing all the litters due from 4 different breeds every month....big big commercial business....looks like he sold Boaz as a puppy and someone with open papers is using him for breeding....

As everyone says, this pedigree lacks cohesiveness and direction....it is a pedigree of 2 AKC dogs that someone bred to make $$$ as the OP has commented that she thought about doing. By random breedings such as these, top and bottom and then the OPs dog, negative traits are ignored, not realized and then multiplied and passed forward....in a downward spiral and the resultant pups often are victims of being sold inexpensively to less knowledgable buyers who look at them as disposable....just like the OPs dog that she found in an advertisement by it's previous owner.

Sorry - this is a dog who deserves to be loved and in a good home ~ but not be bred!

Lee

[GSD<3er212]

Originally Posted by wolfstraum

Whitedheim is the kennel name of Whited K-9 Services in Kent OH.....I have met owner a few times years ago, and knew people who bought and sold dogs from/to him....he keeps many many dogs - a few are titled, many imported, but mostly untitled and used to have a calendar on his website listing all the litters due from 4 different breeds every month....big big commercial business....looks like he sold Boaz as a puppy and someone with open papers is using him for breeding....

As everyone says, this pedigree lacks cohesiveness and direction....it is a pedigree of 2 AKC dogs that someone bred to make $$$ as the OP has commented that she thought about doing. By random breedings such as these, top and bottom and then the OPs dog, negative traits are ignored, not realized and then multiplied and passed forward....in a downward spiral and the resultant pups often are victims of being sold inexpensively to less knowledgable buyers who look at them as disposable....just like the OPs dog that she found in an advertisement by it's previous owner.

Sorry - this is a dog who deserves to be loved and in a good home ~ but not be bred!

Lee

Yes, i THOUGHT about breeding.. it was only a THOUGHT! doesnt mean i was GOING to! And how was I supposed to know about her pedigree?? and WHO said that I look at this pup as disposable?!?!?! Seriously?? I have 2 dogs. Both in good health, and will not be "failed" dogs!

[wolfstraum]

Sorry - that was NOT meant to be a personal attack - just an observation on the general public who does dispose of dogs....your girl is lucky that you bought her and want to give her a loving home....she is one of the lucky ones! Big commercial operations like the one behind her are just as much to blame for the dogs who get disposed of as the people who dump them out on highways or in shelters....

As a breeder, my comments were observations and conclusions based on years of getting emails about nice looking dogs on their last hours in shelters, on the constant barrage of facebook posts looking for a reprieve for dogs bred by irresponsible people who are in trouble.....

When posts like mine, and many of the others in this thread are made, they are often read by lurkers who are also thinking about breeding - and are thus very general and made in the hopes that the information given helps people other than the OP to make an informed decision about the responsibility of breeding dogs.

Lee

[msvette2u]

Nobody said you did. Obviously her previous owners did, however, and God only knows how many siblings of hers, and generations before her.

This is essentially what I was saying in my earlier posts.

the resultant pups often are victims of being sold inexpensively to less knowledgable buyers who look at them as disposable.

The resultant pups, being viewed "disposable", are the ones sitting in shelters and rescues, or have already been euthanized due to poor temperament and/or health issues.

The difference between what your dog's parents owners did and what good breeders do, is that good breeders look at all aspects of a dog's make up - health, temperament, working ability (yes there has to be some), and match the breeding prospects up to enhance the breed, to make sure the puppies aren't a genetic mess, temperamentally and health-wise.

This is why so many allergies and other health issues and temperament issues are becoming so rampant in the breed.
AND all breeds are subject to this, not just GSDs.

Please remember Lee was speaking in general and about your dog's parentage and lineage, not you.

When posts like mine, and many of the others in this thread are made, they are often read by lurkers who are also thinking about breeding - and are thus very general and made in the hopes that the information given helps people other than the OP to make an informed decision about the responsibility of breeding dogs.

This is how I often post, and it's often misunderstood in the same manner, I can relate!

[GSD<3er212]

Originally Posted by wolfstraum

Sorry - that was NOT meant to be a personal attack - just an observation on the general public who does dispose of dogs....your girl is lucky that you bought her and want to give her a loving home....she is one of the lucky ones! Big commercial operations like the one behind her are just as much to blame for the dogs who get disposed of as the people who dump them out on highways or in shelters....

As a breeder, my comments were observations and conclusions based on years of getting emails about nice looking dogs on their last hours in shelters, on the constant barrage of facebook posts looking for a reprieve for dogs bred by irresponsible people who are in trouble.....

When posts like mine, and many of the others in this thread are made, they are often read by lurkers who are also thinking about breeding - and are thus very general and made in the hopes that the information given helps people other than the OP to make an informed decision about the responsibility of breeding dogs.

Lee

oh, OK, i must have read that wrong. I apologize 23948732 times.. yes, i do believe she is one of the lucky ones. She was underweight where i got her from. And truthfully if i had the money, id probably build my own kennel and take in all the homeless pets. It really does break my heart.

[carmspack]

Cliff I have no idea what you are meaning by this in conjunction with this thread ???? "Hey Carmen....you have a dogs that have a lot of generations of only your kennel ???....anyway....it is difficult to understand the breeding but it is mostly a west SL breeding with some west working"

MY line is the rudder -- the certainty - planned for generations ahead - reliable , predictable results -- low risk (conservative) , building and banking , collecting old heritage working herding genetics (not modern trial) , critically evaluating and selecting for harder to get (deliberately bred for - not random one or two in a litter) traits such as genetic obedience, high hunt search , natural instinctive tracking . I constantly bring in fresh but complementary genetics and attach them , bring them forward to the next generation. There is a plan .

the pedigree being discussed has no plan whatsoever . No testing -- just producing little doggies with 4 legs , the all important gsd prick (standing upright ears) and color .

[msvette2u]

Originally Posted by GSD<3er212

oh, OK, i must have read that wrong. I apologize 23948732 times.. yes, i do believe she is one of the lucky ones. She was underweight where i got her from. And truthfully if i had the money, id probably build my own kennel and take in all the homeless pets. It really does break my heart.

It is a full time job in and of itself, and not always a happy one.
But you can start with fostering one dog at a time. That's how we got started!

[GSD<3er212]

Originally Posted by msvette2u

It is a full time job in and of itself, and not always a happy one.
But you can start with fostering one dog at a time. That's how we got started!

..thats only if we won the lottery. lol and fostering is actually how we got our first dog! We fostered him for like a week then me and my husband adopted him. (from Angels for Animals)

[cliffson1]

Carmen, my point is that a kennel can have generations of their stock and have good dogs....it goes without saying that you need a plan and knowledge to effectuate good results...and of course I don't think this particular breeding possesses that.....but just because a kennel has generations of their stock doesn't tell you anything unless you know the particulars.
I see in this pedigree Weiss Blau dogs....now I don't know if this is Larry and Anna Parker's kennel. I thought their kennel was Weiss Blau, anyway I remember Larry and Anna when they moved to Ala. in the mid seventies from Germany. They had good dogs then, but they were both very knowledgable about the breed and they trained their dogs. I have no doubt they would make good breeding decisions, having talked to them hours on end back then. Again, I don't know that the Weiss Blau is their kennel or not(and I am not saying this is good breeding...lol), but I do know if it is them I would wager their dogs are very sound. I hope this makes sense.