Buying a puppy from a breeder is a "gamble"

[carmspack]

right on wolfstraum and Liesje --

" but that much of what Willy is probably looking for in a dog *is* genetic; whether he wants to do agility or Schutzhund or SAR or PPD with his next GSD doesn't matter, whatever sport he chooses means there are things one can look for in the genetics of the dog"

and those things would be confidence , environmental security , a natural physicality - athleticism , natural co-ordination, balanced structure (not extremes) , good muscle development , and a boldness coupled with directability .

[lhczth]

Willy, I don't seem to have any of Navarre running agility, unfortunately.

[KristiM]

Originally Posted by Liesje

Totally agree, never said otherwise. A dog that can't cap is faulty temperament, IMO. A hectic dog that can't think can be a nightmare to train. I'm not trying to debate the specifics of the agility obstacles (I do agility too so this is not new to me) but that much of what Willy is probably looking for in a dog *is* genetic; whether he wants to do agility or Schutzhund or SAR or PPD with his next GSD doesn't matter, whatever sport he chooses means there are things one can look for in the genetics of the dog. When I buy my dogs I do not just pick breeders I like or am friends with and think "oh it's a GSD so it will automatically be good at anything." No, I pick breeders that are actually have dogs doing what I want to do with their dogs and prove to me that their lines are genetically inclined to enjoy the type of training I'm interested in. You can't just look at the dog in front of you because if you're looking at a puppy a lot of things aren't developed yet. I bought a dog that was going to be a higher drive dog with high prey drive as indicated by the pedigree and the breeder's knowledge of the lines. The dog's prey drive literally turned on overnight around 7 months of age but if I'd ignored the dog's genetics and simply selected the puppy I would have chosen wrong.

Agree, I think where it becomes a gamble is the health. Seems to me that a lot of dogs have great temperaments for what they need to do but have bad hips, or digestive issues or back problems and the list goes on....I just think that it is tough to find the "whole package" in a puppy. For me personally, thinking ahead to the possibility of a GSD for another (highly competitive) agility dog the gamble has nothing to do with working ability but this to me is a breed that generally is not all that healthy and lacks in the athletic ability to be highly competitive in that particular sport. Not saying that other breeds don't have the same issues, for example if I was to look at mals I would be far more concerned about overall temperament and would feel more confident in being able to find a healthy, athletic dog. It really is a toss up no matter what breed, its a good thing that we love our dogs even if they aren't the "whole package."

[carmspack]

-- adding longevity - here is Allycia UD

[Liesje]

There is always a risk as far as health - nothing is guaranteed - but I think with good research you can minimize that risk. What bugs me is when someone complains that they "paid a lot of money for a top quality dog from a top breeder and now it has HD and EPI" but then you ask if they researched the pedigree, looked into the health of other progeny from those dogs, prioritized getting a dog from a repeat breeding where the first litter was known to be healthy, etc and the answer is no, they just assumed if you pay a lot of money and someone tells you they are a top breeder with top dogs then that's what you get. If health is someone's top priority then I would expect a lot of research going into that when considering various lines and how they produce when combined and not just taking someone's word for it.

[carmspack]

what I attempted to show was a female dog "carmspack Allycia UD" at 14 playing at the lake with much younger golden retrievers - all field trial dogs . Still mentally and physically all there , looks like an 8 year old . I'll have to have a Jr member of the family figure out some picture posting.