Buying a puppy from a breeder is a "gamble"

[KristiM]

I have heard that structure at 7 weeks will give you a good idea of what the general structure will be as an adult. I would think you would certainly need to have a "trained eye" to be able to see this though. I personally am terrible at looking at structure in puppies.


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[carmspack]

to answer this " you ever hear the breeder didn't have a
pup that's a match for me" speaking for myself the answer is YES -- often refer people to another litter , or another individual pup , or even to another breeder- not specifically just tell them I don't have what they are looking for.
to this "Some dogs will do things just for the sake of it, and are born that way. Some dogs don't need to be taught the motivation to do the work, whether it be agility, herding, Schutzhund, etc. If you want to do really well at one thing, why not buy a dog that is born to do it? " 100% true .

[cliffson1]

Good post Lisa!
No dog comes out ready to bite the sleeve, this is just an expression....but just like you can breed for pets that have barely any drive, you can breed for over the top prey which will result in high percent of dogs born ready to bite the sleeve...lol......hope that makes sense. Hopefully nobody is breeding for people's individual wants because that's how the breed got plucked up in the first place.

[wolfstraum]

All dogs are a crap shoot.....because the environmental influences will play into the dogs ability and trainability.

That being said, getting a puppy from a breeder who has been sucessful at producing working dogs - in many venues - will load the dice to get you what you want.

I had a pup in my "C" litter - the pup was a monkey....he would scale the walls of the puppy pen, climb over and upwards on storage boxes and end up on top of the washing machine or halfway up blocked stairway.....he went to a SAR home, and ended up as a State Trooper - who is a successful narcotics, border patrol, SAR dog...one who at 2 years old tested by a German judge/LE officer-trainer who scoffed at the notion that the dog did not have bitework training. He hadn't, he was genetically capable and strong.....

A stable, balanced pup should be able to be trained in most any sport. And, if your interest so lies, dual titled.....IPO, agility, flyball, dock dogs, AKC OB....Willy, you have seen IPO3 dogs of my breeding doing flyball...the dog who is agility titled should have been IPO trained - she would have excelled at it...have played at agility with several and all take to it like ducks to water...yet these are dogs who are strong in IPO sport too....herding - although none titled before I sent Kira to Meghan, I was pretty sure because of demonstrated ability/instinct and pedigree that she would be suitable...for IPO as well as herding....

One key is finding a puppy whose breeder understands their lines, is consistant with using elements within pedigrees and who is producing solid, stable dogs - the rest is up to you to accomplish...you get only the raw material from a breeder.

If you want an absolute guarantee, then get a dog who is already doing a sport, is health tested and spend time bonding with him.

Lee

[Liesje]

Originally Posted by KristiM

But if for example he doesn't "cap" well you will not have a consistent start line, consistent contacts and will have a hard time with collection, tight turns etc. I think that an ability to "cap" for example is largely a genetic trait that is vital to being highly competitive.

Totally agree, never said otherwise. A dog that can't cap is faulty temperament, IMO. A hectic dog that can't think can be a nightmare to train. I'm not trying to debate the specifics of the agility obstacles (I do agility too so this is not new to me) but that much of what Willy is probably looking for in a dog *is* genetic; whether he wants to do agility or Schutzhund or SAR or PPD with his next GSD doesn't matter, whatever sport he chooses means there are things one can look for in the genetics of the dog. When I buy my dogs I do not just pick breeders I like or am friends with and think "oh it's a GSD so it will automatically be good at anything." No, I pick breeders that are actually have dogs doing what I want to do with their dogs and prove to me that their lines are genetically inclined to enjoy the type of training I'm interested in. You can't just look at the dog in front of you because if you're looking at a puppy a lot of things aren't developed yet. I bought a dog that was going to be a higher drive dog with high prey drive as indicated by the pedigree and the breeder's knowledge of the lines. The dog's prey drive literally turned on overnight around 7 months of age but if I'd ignored the dog's genetics and simply selected the puppy I would have chosen wrong.

[Checker]

how old is a german shepherd when fully grown in size

[wildo]

Originally Posted by lhczth

Believe me, Marcia never had to motivate Navarre to run agility. HE LOVED it and still does. Next to bitework it is his favorite things to do.

Lisa- I missed this. If you happen to have any video of Navarre doing agility, can you PM them to me. Nice pictures of him on your website!

[ponyfarm]

Wildo- You might laugh, but Max has really taken to his agility training. He charges thru the tunnel, leaps on the pause table, downs immediately (yep!) , starting to weave..and he loves it. He is jumping nicely, planning his distances. The person helping me said "Man, I just love working-line dogs..they love to work! "

[doggiedad]

with training and socializing we tell the dog what to tell.

Originally Posted by Chris Wild

As the saying goes "pedigree says what a dog should be, the dog tells you who he IS".

[jocoyn]

You cannot train and socialize the right drives or nerve into a dog. You can make the most of what you got but if it is not there you cannot put it there.