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Old 12-13-2012, 10:30 PM   #11 (permalink)
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so they have two pet dogs that have not a single title/health test between them and they want to charge you $1000 for a puppy?? Wow - what a racket!

The reason breeders charge $ for dogs is because it takes $ to breed properly. I think (I am new here) there is a rule against breeder bashing here, but THINK about what you are buying when you pay $ for a puppy!!

Here are two articles that may open your eyes... (PLEASE don't support Backyard breeders!!) - there are SO many breeders out there doing it RIGHT!

You Get What You Pay For

and

But I Just Want A Pet
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Old 12-13-2012, 10:37 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I agree with Lee(both Lee's!)....I didn't look at their website, though did read everyone's comments.
There is another link from here to read while you are researching which breeder to support: Things to look for in a 'Responsible' Breeder
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:37 AM   #13 (permalink)
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They did not look like they have too much funds so they are using the money from the puppies to further advance the dogs and join clubs and activities.
If this is the case, they are doing it backwards. They should be doing the training and "advancement" of the dogs BEFORE they breed them, not after. As was mentioned previously, these two dogs can have nothing but champions in every generation behind them and that still doesn't mean they should be bred. Training the dogs and competing them in some venue that provides an objective opinion on their quality is the way to prove they are worthy of being reproduced.

It would be such a sad thing for someone to pay a hefty price tag for a puppy, only to find out down the road that these two dogs have horrible hips that they are passing on to their pups, or wonky stomachs or dicey temperaments. At just two years of age, both these dogs could still be great big puppies themselves. I know my own dog didn't really start to shed his puppyhood until he was past his third birthday.

That is a lot of money and bringing a puppy into your home is hopefully a 12+ year commitment. Stack the deck in your favor and give your money to a breeder that isn't learning on your dime. There are good breeders out there and for that price you could give your business to them.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:00 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I agree with all of you and greatly appreciate all the feedback.
I am so glad that I found this forum.

We are going to hold and do more research and visit more kennels before making this huge decision.

Thank you so much,
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:27 AM   #15 (permalink)
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If the dogs have a great temperament and are health tested, who cares about the titles? The OP has not indicated she wants a high drive dog to compete with. She wants a family pet.

I don't see anything wrong with this person breeding to dogs with great temperament that are well trained, just because they don't title them.

Titling a dog does not make it a better dog. No one on this board has met these dogs, except the OP, and one or both of these dogs could possibly title if their owner wanted to.

Maybe it just isn't the owners hobby. I honestly feel like titling is a hobby/lifestyle for people who want extra to do with their dogs.

How does anyone on this board know from that vague website whether the dogs do herding or agility with their owners?
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:29 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sit,stay View Post
If this is the case, they are doing it backwards. They should be doing the training and "advancement" of the dogs BEFORE they breed them, not after. As was mentioned previously, these two dogs can have nothing but champions in every generation behind them and that still doesn't mean they should be bred. Training the dogs and competing them in some venue that provides an objective opinion on their quality is the way to prove they are worthy of being reproduced.
I have never understood this idea that the parents must be titled to be bred. Do you consider a CGC a title? What about agility titles?

I'm sure the sheep herders in Germany chose the dogs that did the best job herding, not the dogs that did the best job biting a sleeve on someone's arm.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:32 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I'm sure the sheep herders in Germany chose the dogs that did the best job herding - exactly , and that is how their ability was PROVEN and valuable .
"How does anyone on this board know from that vague website whether the dogs do herding or agility with their owners" -- because it IS vague , had they or their dogs been doing something , anything, herding , or otherwise it would have been front and center .
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:41 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by x0emiroxy0x View Post
I have never understood this idea that the parents must be titled to be bred. Do you consider a CGC a title? What about agility titles?

I'm sure the sheep herders in Germany chose the dogs that did the best job herding, not the dogs that did the best job biting a sleeve on someone's arm.
Then I guess we should just trust everybody who has a "healthy" dog that tells us that their dog has an "upstanding temperament", right? There's definitely no need for outside evaluation through some sort of breed testing association, right? I love my dog and I think he has a great temperament. I think he's "the best" at being a normal pet dog. Plus he's healthy, so I should just breed him now, right?

Agility titles, Schutzhund titles, herding titles...they all take extensive training. A CGC does not. They aren't even comparable. Somebody who cares enough to prove their dog's worth and put all the time and money into the training is someone who actually gives a crap about bettering the breed, and may just end up with a dog worth breeding. Someone who just says "Hey, my dog is really sweet and doesn't have hip dysplasia," definitely has no business doing it.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:42 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by x0emiroxy0x View Post
If the dogs have a great temperament and are health tested, who cares about the titles? The OP has not indicated she wants a high drive dog to compete with. She wants a family pet.

I don't see anything wrong with this person breeding to dogs with great temperament that are well trained, just because they don't title them.

Titling a dog does not make it a better dog. No one on this board has met these dogs, except the OP, and one or both of these dogs could possibly title if their owner wanted to.

Maybe it just isn't the owners hobby. I honestly feel like titling is a hobby/lifestyle for people who want extra to do with their dogs.

How does anyone on this board know from that vague website whether the dogs do herding or agility with their owners?
Couldn't have said this better myself. My dog doesn't have a huge fancy pedigree or special lines..but he's a very happy and healthy dog with a great temperament. He has lots of love to give and goes everywhere with me. I don't use him for any competitive trials, so I never saw a point of fancy names and achievements on a piece if paper.
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Old 12-14-2012, 10:25 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by GatorDog View Post
Then I guess we should just trust everybody who has a "healthy" dog that tells us that their dog has an "upstanding temperament", right? There's definitely no need for outside evaluation through some sort of breed testing association, right? I love my dog and I think he has a great temperament. I think he's "the best" at being a normal pet dog. Plus he's healthy, so I should just breed him now, right?

Agility titles, Schutzhund titles, herding titles...they all take extensive training. A CGC does not. They aren't even comparable. Somebody who cares enough to prove their dog's worth and put all the time and money into the training is someone who actually gives a crap about bettering the breed, and may just end up with a dog worth breeding. Someone who just says "Hey, my dog is really sweet and doesn't have hip dysplasia," definitely has no business doing it.
I gues I wonder how you determine whether someone has any business doing something-and if a dog doesn't have titles that means the owner doesn't care-nope not even a little bit-
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