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Old 12-24-2012, 02:36 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Generally what is recommended when browsing for a breeder: Things to look for in a 'Responsible' Breeder
Please make sure you read/understand and have gone thru that above link.

That way when you get into reading King Shepherd Home page site for Shelly Watts you'll be better judge her as a breeder that is a fit for you.

As a bit of an aside there is QUITE a coat on long haired GSD's and if you get a 150 pound one it's even more of a time/comb/wash/shedding issue. Having pet way too many long coated dogs with those tangled mats behind their ears, and the chunks of fur behind their back legs, I know it's hard to keep up. Add the factor that I then know people who pay and get a long coated dog that they then just shave all the time because of the coat............ what's the point of that????

LIke that they PennHip http://www.kingshepherd.com/Puppies/Puppies.htm

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Old 12-24-2012, 02:40 PM   #42 (permalink)
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"*All Puppies go to their new homes on a STRICT SPAY NEUTER CONTRACT, to protect the integrity of our breeding. When a new owner furnishes the proper proof of Spaying or Neutering their puppy, Chateau De Chief will then provide the new owner with their American King Shepherd Club, Inc. (AKSC, Inc.) registration papers. Only under the most preternatural circumstances, will we even consider placing a puppy with breeding rights that will be under the very strict rules and regulations of the breeder."
According to this...those papers mean nothing as well. It's a club registration and this dog can't be shown in AKC or CKC shows anyways (not an approved breed). If you were able to breed it with a AKC registered GSD, the club wouldn't register the puppies and neither would the AKC so they would be paperless. You can show these dogs in "rare-breed" shows, but to the dog world these mean nothing. You are just paying $3500 to have something "special."

I know there is a lady in my state producing over-sized long haired GSDs that are AKC registered. Not sure what her name is or kennel name is, but I've seen the dogs and they are 140 lb male and 120 lb female. She just uses the same breeding pair of large GSDs over and over again to get consistent large dogs with long hair. I felt the hips of the male through the long hair, and the way he moves, its clear he has major HD. The female's hips are higher than her withers...a very strange thing to see on a German Shepherd.
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:47 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Yes the papers mean nothing and these dogs can only be shown in AKSC - American King Shepherd Club (of which the breeder is the founder/president). The show titles are advertised as:
The AKSC Consecutive, Top Winning Male King Shepherd in Breed from 1998 through 2003; and the AKSC Top Obedience King from 1998 through 2004!
King Shepherd Adults and King Shepherd Adult and Trained Dog information

My point is that if the breeder has certain contract stipulations such as limited breeding rights - that is HER prerogative. It is WRONG to misrepresent your intentions and lie to the person selling you her puppy. I don't agree with her breeding program, but I would not ever condone or justify breaking her contract with anterior intentions than what you tell her when you go to buy from her. You stated you wanted a pet, she will most likely not sell you a breeding dog or give you "rights" for that, she specifies that pets need to be spayed/neutered, but OP has said that they will leave the dog intact and possibly breed. That is wrong and breaking your word/contract.
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:03 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Kings used to, and maybe still are, shown in ARBA shows, (american rare breed association).

The started as Shilohs, decided to take a different direction and made them into "kings"..

As I previously posted, I won't talk you out of one.

I agree 3500 is quite an excessive price in my opinion, I guess it comes with owning "a rare breed" or "designer breed" (which means mixed). I honestly don't get why someone would pay 3500 for a puppy unless it's just to say "my dog cost 3500 and it's a KING" and I don't know why anyone would pay for a 'designer breed' either..There are tons of them in shelters.

I would like to know the oldest age of one of these Kings? Bet their life span is alot shorter than gsd, and more in line with a pyr/st bernard..

I also agree (don't recall who said it),,a coated dog is going to look ALOT bigger than they really are, and alot of that coat is adding to weight..

To each his own on the size thing, just because parents weigh xxx doesn't mean a puppy produced will follow suit..My gsd Kodi, was the product of standard parents, yet, he topped out at 32" at the shoulders and 125lbs..(the mutant..

So what would happen if you paid 3500 for a puppy, and that puppy didn't top 100?

Also I see in their contract,,all dogs are sold on spay/neuter contract which I think is a good thing
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:05 PM   #45 (permalink)
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goldendoodles were specifically bred for a working purpose,,, that being service dogs for people with allergies. The goldendoodle is a great combination of temperament, intelligence, aesthetics and the practicality of minimal shedding ...
Yeah, I've read the breeders' websites too, I know the pitch.

The reality of it is, I've met a lot of 'doodles and they would not be able to "work" their way out of a wet paper bag. They are crazy hyper, unable to calm, and they have a particular screeching bark that puts my teeth on edge. I can't imagine someone trying to make a "service dog" out of such an animal. Maybe you got a nice one, but they are being bred for a pet market, not a working market. Oh, and some of them DO shed.

Standard Poodles are fine, Goldens are fine, Labs are fine. But there's some kind of unholy synergy when you start mixing them together. You seem to end up with the worst attributes of both breeds in one frustrating package. Sure, they're cute, but I can't get behind a breeding program that is based on false pretenses. You couldn't give me $1200 to TAKE a 'doodle... I have to groom several of them, and in most cases, I can't wait to get them out of my shop... they're generally friendly and sweet, but difficult to work with.
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:42 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Yeah, I've read the breeders' websites too, I know the pitch.

The reality of it is, I've met a lot of 'doodles and they would not be able to "work" their way out of a wet paper bag. They are crazy hyper, unable to calm, and they have a particular screeching bark that puts my teeth on edge. I can't imagine someone trying to make a "service dog" out of such an animal. Maybe you got a nice one, but they are being bred for a pet market, not a working market. Oh, and some of them DO shed.

Standard Poodles are fine, Goldens are fine, Labs are fine. But there's some kind of unholy synergy when you start mixing them together. You seem to end up with the worst attributes of both breeds in one frustrating package. Sure, they're cute, but I can't get behind a breeding program that is based on false pretenses. You couldn't give me $1200 to TAKE a 'doodle... I have to groom several of them, and in most cases, I can't wait to get them out of my shop... they're generally friendly and sweet, but difficult to work with.
LOL... My wife gets what my wife wants... labradoodles are as you say they are... but my limited experience with goldendoodles, with golden retriever sires, is a whole different story... right now he's only eight weeks old.. I got Yoschi about a month ago.. she said she wanted a dog of her own,,, guess she doesn't count the Lhasa apso and sh´tzu,, lol... anyhow,, this goldendoodle we saw at the park was the best mannered and most beautiful representative of the doodle clan I have ever seen....
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:31 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I don't want other dogs. Or whatever a doodle is. I am only interested in shepherds.
I own one and he's only 70 pounds. I love and spoil him to death.
I don't think i will be going after shelleys pups as i have been on another forum and none seems to like her. Not a good sign for me. Im looking at a king shepherd breeder where theres are around 125 pounds and up. Kings yes, they are a mix. With a pyranese and a shilo. Im okay with that. Its still a shepherd. I don't intend on doing any breeding. That is NOT my interest. BUt thank you on the heads up for the papers. Yes they are useless but its nice to have something to show my friends I guess. lol
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:23 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I don't want other dogs. Or whatever a doodle is. I am only interested in shepherds.
I own one and he's only 70 pounds. I love and spoil him to death.
I don't think i will be going after shelleys pups as i have been on another forum and none seems to like her. Not a good sign for me. Im looking at a king shepherd breeder where theres are around 125 pounds and up. Kings yes, they are a mix. With a pyranese and a shilo. Im okay with that. Its still a shepherd. I don't intend on doing any breeding. That is NOT my interest. BUt thank you on the heads up for the papers. Yes they are useless but its nice to have something to show my friends I guess. lol
Did you ever get a look at Caucasian shepherds?? Not sure they're available in this part of the world,, but certainly worth the time to look at the pics,, they're amazing!! I wasn't pushing doodles,, lol,, just using them as an example of mixed breeds selling for more than a couple hundred and being worth it..
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:53 PM   #49 (permalink)
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If you are looking for a larger German Shepherd, have you thought about contacting Doc? You could PM him on here

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Old 12-26-2012, 09:06 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Did you ever get a look at Caucasian shepherds?? Not sure they're available in this part of the world,, but certainly worth the time to look at the pics,, they're amazing!! I wasn't pushing doodles,, lol,, just using them as an example of mixed breeds selling for more than a couple hundred and being worth it..
The Caucasian Shepherds are a whole lot of dog. They are actually becoming more and more available here in the U.S., which is a shame. It would take a very particular type of situation for these dogs to thrive in.

As for Goldendoodles? There is a BYB-almost-puppy-mill-type in my area that pumps out a large number of these mixes and we have seen many of the resulting dogs in rescue. They aren't all low shedding, and if the parent stock are poor specimens of their breeds, their resulting puppies are probably going to have issues, too. A well bred Golden and a well bred Poodle are such fantastic dogs in their own right. Why would anyone feel the need to purposefully mess with that?

The gentleman who first bred the Poodle mixes to be service dogs had made many statements that he regrets it:
The Australian

If the "founder" thinks it is a bad idea, who are the rest of us to disagree?
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