Big red flags on the Breeder we got our dog from? - Page 8 - German Shepherd Dog Forums

Increase font size: 0, 10, 25, 50%

GermanShepherds.com is the premier German Shepherd Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-11-2012, 10:09 PM   #71 (permalink)
Master Member
 
GrammaD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 529
Default

I OFA all my dogs- always have- even though they are all speutered pets. I may be a pie in the sky idealist but I think if breeders offered a $$ concession and required their buyers (pet, show, or work/perf) have the OFA's done it would help them improve the health of their respective breeds. Provided they use the data when making breeding decisions that is.
GrammaD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-11-2012, 10:22 PM   #72 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
onyx'girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SW, MI
Posts: 24,543
Default

Too bad it isn't a requisite(though I'm not a fan of OFA) for breeding...but again two "excellent" graded dogs could produce HD so not sure it would change a thing as far as prevalence.
__________________
Jane~
Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Karlo
onyx'girl is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-11-2012, 10:45 PM   #73 (permalink)
Master Member
 
GrammaD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 529
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by onyx'girl View Post
Too bad it isn't a requisite(though I'm not a fan of OFA) for breeding...but again two "excellent" graded dogs could produce HD so not sure it would change a thing as far as prevalence.
I'm thinking more in terms of following the data to factor in production across as well as up and down. Just having both parents with "good" hips isn't predictive, but if breeders could follow a complete data set which includes kinship analysis they could possibly avoid a breeding which results in higher than average dysplastic progeny. As it stands the data available is limited to dogs selected out for breeding and breeders may or may not know if HD is more or less of a problem within a family. It's never going to be 100% and breeders would need to weigh the consequences of possible further narrowing of diversity versus a hard push to decrease HD. But I am of the "the more data the better" school of thought.
GrammaD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-11-2012, 10:58 PM   #74 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
onyx'girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SW, MI
Posts: 24,543
Default

Hips though are just a small part of the equation when choosing breeding matches and I don't see a problem breeding fair/fair grade with dogs of stellar everything else.

I see OFA 'excellent' dogs that I wouldn't want to own, breed or train.
__________________
Jane~
Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Karlo
onyx'girl is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-11-2012, 11:15 PM   #75 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: California, US
Posts: 5,928
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by martemchik View Post
Yes, you can diagnose a dog by 1 year old but most people wouldn't because pet owners aren't going to x-ray their pets. My point in saying its rare is that a quick search showed that only 4% of GSDs have hip dysplasia. For me, that's rare, for the rest of you it might be very common. I know that these are just statistics from the OFA institute so in theory these should be the "better" bred dogs that are going to show homes or sport homes and most likely breeding prospects as that is the majority of people that use the OFA institute.

My point was that as prevalent as HD is in our breed it still is a "rare" occurance when you look at the whole population of GSDs.
The occurence stats from the OFA are useless in determining how prevelant HD is in the GSD (or any other breed) because of the selectivity in the x-rys that get sent to the OFA. Most folks don't x-ray their dogs in the first place and only the "good" ones will even get submittd to the OFA for them to look at.
codmaster is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-11-2012, 11:16 PM   #76 (permalink)
Administrator & Alpha Bitch of the Wild Bunch
 
Chris Wild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Michigan, USA
Posts: 13,572
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by martemchik View Post
My point in saying its rare is that a quick search showed that only 4% of GSDs have hip dysplasia. For me, that's rare, for the rest of you it might be very common. I know that these are just statistics from the OFA institute so in theory these should be the "better" bred dogs that are going to show homes or sport homes and most likely breeding prospects as that is the majority of people that use the OFA institute.

My point was that as prevalent as HD is in our breed it still is a "rare" occurance when you look at the whole population of GSDs.
No, it is not rare. But it's not pandemic or the death sentence that many people believe it to be either.

Not sure where these numbers are coming from though.You referenced the OFA database, but it clearly says neither 4% nor 25%.

It actually says that 19% of those x-rays submitted for GSDs are graded dysplastic. Their current sample size is more than 100,000 for GSDs alone. No idea where you got 4% on the OFA database, unless you were mistakenly looking at the excellent column, which says 3.9% were rated excellent.

Very easy info to find on the OFA website:
Orthopedic Foundation for Animals

Of course, that is only of x-rays that are submitted. Many people don't bother to x-ray. Many x-rays that look bad aren't even sent in but are diagnosed by the vet. And OFA is only one of many certifying bodies, though it is certainly the most commonly used in the US. I would guess in reality the percentage is probably a bit higher.
__________________
Wildhaus Kennels
Chris Wild is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-11-2012, 11:21 PM   #77 (permalink)
Master Member
 
GrammaD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 529
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by onyx'girl View Post
Hips though are just a small part of the equation when choosing breeding matches and I don't see a problem breeding fair/fair grade with dogs of stellar everything else.

I see OFA 'excellent' dogs that I wouldn't want to own, breed or train.
I don't have a problem with breeding fair dogs either, and I agree that hips are only part of the equation, but I would differ from you on it being a small part.
GrammaD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-11-2012, 11:25 PM   #78 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
onyx'girl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SW, MI
Posts: 24,543
Default

I'm talking about the fair grading...how many stud dogs are sought after if they are fair? Or bitches bred that are fair? Even if they have everything else that is awesome... it is something to shy away from, even though it is a passing grade.
__________________
Jane~
Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Karlo
onyx'girl is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-11-2012, 11:29 PM   #79 (permalink)
Crowned Member
 
cliffson1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,353
Default

19% of dogs sent into OFA are dysplastic, then you factor in the point that a much higher % of dogs that are clearly dysplastic are not sent in....and a higher % of dogs that are obviously good ARE sent in and it is easy to see that the real overall number is much closer to 25 to 30 % of the breed has a degree of HD here in the states.
cliffson1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-11-2012, 11:35 PM   #80 (permalink)
Master Member
 
GrammaD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 529
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by onyx'girl View Post
I'm talking about the fair grading...how many stud dogs are sought after if they are fair? Or bitches bred that are fair? Even if they have everything else that is awesome... it is something to shy away from, even though it is a passing grade.
Which is what we get when people are breeding to the test (if I may take liberties with the teaching to the test meme) and why tracking data "horizontally" on a pedigree becomes important. If people are focused on paper breeding they should be looking at all the paper available and working on making more and more available.

In a perfect world only people who know the dogs and what they produce(d) inside outside and upside down from the beginning of time would be breeding. People who look at the whole dog, not just health certs and titles.

But since that is not the case and since health testing is basically reduced to a sort of "stop gap" I think it is incumbent upon breeders to make that stop gap into a veritable dam.

Again, I admit I am "pie in the sky."

edited to add this is all a long winded way to say I agree with you to a major extent

Last edited by GrammaD; 12-11-2012 at 11:40 PM.
GrammaD is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the German Shepherd Dog Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:02 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2
PetGuide.com
Basset Hound Forum Doberman Forum Golden Retriever Forum Beagle Forum
Boxer Forum Dog Forum Pit Bull Forum Poodle Forum
Bulldog Forum Fish Forum Havanese Forum Maltese Forum
Cat Forum German Shepherd Forum Labradoodle Forum Yorkie Forum Hedgehog Forum
Chihuahua Forum Retriever Breeds Cichlid Forum Dart Frog Forum Mice Breeder Forum