Big red flags on the Breeder we got our dog from? - Page 6

SchutzenWoof · 12-10-2012, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JakodaCD OA

well 2 grand is no drop in the bucket

I wouldn't worry about the diarhea, (I thought it was more than that)...Puppies pick up all kinds of weird stuff, no big deal there.

I agree with Annette^^, and we aren't all die hard show people here

These dogs are so smart, they don't necessarily have to be "schutzhund material' to certainly be able to do ALOT of other activities if you so desire..

I think your on the right path, and again, at this point, I'd wait on the akc reg , and go from there..

Keep us updated and I hope it all works out

Quote:

Originally Posted by bocron

If your goal was for a nice pet, then you may end up with just that. Should you have done more research? Yes, but as a friend says to me on a regular basis, there is no rewind on this life so learn from it and do better next time.
I would hope for the papers and keep my fingers crossed that he is generally healthy and go from there. I would not, however, continue the cycle by getting into a breeding scenario with the dog, the breeder or anyone attached to the situation.
You could absolutely get into AKC performance type activities with him (you can get PAL papers that give you the option of entering him for obedience, agility, rally, etc) and learn about training and the breed. We have a girl in our Schutzhund club with a GSD she bought at a pet shop with no papers who just got her scorebook and will be attempting her first title this spring.

I think you've both summarized this experience nicely. Thank you.

There will be no breeding scenario with our dog or this breeder.

PS: I've got insurance with a hip dysplasia add on, just in case they are lying about the good hips on the parents, which is more possible than not.

The vet and the insurance company said I can drop it after a year or so if nothing shows up.

What do you guys think about that?

Professional opinions welcome.

onyx'girl · 12-10-2012, 07:08 PM

Obviously this breeder does care about her reputation? It isn't hard to make noise about a breeder when someone is upset and google is a great friend when internet posts name names with reviews.(Don't do it here, of course, but there are other venues to do so) IF you've been taken advantage of, the breeders reputation will be at risk. Whether or not she cares about that remains to be seen.
I agree about the runny poo....that often happens when pups change diet, home, stress from whatever/but I'd have fecals run to rule out parasites/virus as the cause.
Enjoy your puppy! This stage goes by way too fast, and take lots, n lots of pictures!!!

martemchik · 12-10-2012, 07:13 PM

Well...its horrible when HD shows up before the dog is one year of age, it is also extremely rare. HD generally takes some time to develop, and you can only "diagnose" it if its a milder case or a developing case after the dog is 2 years old. If you notice issues in your dog before the age of one, you get x-rays just to confirm but its usually pretty noticeable.

If you're really worried about HD then I would keep the insurance, my issue with insurance is that its 20-30 bucks a month and you will probably not get your money's worth unless it involves yearly physicals and preventative care. HD is prevalent in this breed, but the majority of cases are when the dog is much much older, usually at an age where a hip replacement is just to prolong the obvious and probably not in the dog's best interest.

wyominggrandma · 12-10-2012, 07:31 PM

HD, if the dog has it, can be diagnosed at anytime with xrays. A 6 month old puppy can be xrayed and if it has HD,can be diagnosed easily at that time. OFA numbers will only be given at 2 years old, prelims can be given at any age from a puppy on, but will only be posted on the site at 1 year old.
I have had OFA do prelims on a 9 month old Sheltie puppy and was diagnosed with both hips having severe HD. This puppy moved like a dream in the show ring, but I was noticing when he moved, he was lowering his head slightly. I decided to xray him, sent the prelims to OFA and they gave me the diagnosis. He had horrible hips.
I know another dog that won group after group, fabulous movement, could jump, with no issues and moved like a smooth machine. Did her hips when she hit 2 and she had the worst set of hips I have ever seen........
My first GSD at a year old was fine one day, came out of her crate limping slightly one morning and I took her in for xrays. Didn't even send them in, one hip was subluxated out, one had no hip socket to speak of. She never limped until that day. Did FHO on both hips.
What I am trying to say is HD under a year old os not so rare at all. Many many cases of it are dignosed everyday, that is why OFA suggests prelims if you have a concern. A severe case can show up as early as 5 or 6 months.
Don't assume that if your dog doesn't have HD at a year, it will never have it. But, don't assume that a dog under a year old won't have it either.

**JakodaCD OA** · 12-11-2012, 07:40 AM

what wyominggrandma said^^

A dog just doesnt develop HD (remember elbows are just as important) if they have it, they have it.

I would keep the insurance for a year just in case something crops up. I would prelim hips/elbows before your insurance is going to lapse. If nothing shows up, if your comfortable, cancel the insurance, if you think you should continue it, by all means do so.

The majority of people (pet owners) never bother to xray their dogs unless something crops up, limping etc..Sometimes as poster above stated w/her experience, you would just never think anything was wrong as there are no clinical symptoms.

cliffson1 · 12-11-2012, 09:16 AM

HD before 1year being rare is not accurate....actually it is the opposite....by one year of age you know what the dog will be hipswise in over 90% of the time. That's why Germany certifies hips at a year of age.....because you know what you have in a vast majority of cases.

**Liesje** · 12-11-2012, 09:32 AM

You can certainly diagnose HD before 2 years (and you can rule it out too). You cannot get an OFA rating before 2 years but the OFA is not the be-all or end-all of HD diagnostics. It takes time for the arthritis to progress but the dog either has HD or not; borderline dogs would be what is more rare and where you would want to monitor over time for changes but in most cases you can check early. I check my dogs at 6-7 months and so far have not had the ratings differ from the prelim opinion of the vet between 6 months and 2 years.

Smithie86 · 12-11-2012, 10:19 AM

We have done the register the litter and puppies on line from the 1st litter we bred. It is simple, fast and the registration goes directly to the new owner.

**gagsd** · 12-11-2012, 10:21 AM

Is it possible this puppy was in lieu of a stud fee? That would explain why the mother was not on premises and the papers were not yet available.

SchutzenWoof · 12-11-2012, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gagsd

Is it possible this puppy was in lieu of a stud fee? That would explain why the mother was not on premises and the papers were not yet available.

Good question. Would actually make some sense.

The fact I'm here is really telling too. A customer of this particular breeder is resorting to discussing her transaction with other breeders on a forum. To me it means she's doing something wrong. As the days go by, and you great folks keep providing information, the pieces are starting to fall together for me. I'm still hopeful, but either way I'm ready for whatever happens.

Thanks to all again.

12-10-2012, 07:08 PM	#52 (permalink)
onyx'girl Crowned Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: SW, MI Posts: 21,187	Obviously this breeder does care about her reputation? It isn't hard to make noise about a breeder when someone is upset and google is a great friend when internet posts name names with reviews.(Don't do it here, of course, but there are other venues to do so) IF you've been taken advantage of, the breeders reputation will be at risk. Whether or not she cares about that remains to be seen. I agree about the runny poo....that often happens when pups change diet, home, stress from whatever/but I'd have fecals run to rule out parasites/virus as the cause. Enjoy your puppy! This stage goes by way too fast, and take lots, n lots of pictures!!! __________________ Jane~ Kept by Onyx, Kacie and Gideon v Wildhaus aka Karlo

12-10-2012, 07:13 PM	#53 (permalink)
martemchik Knighted Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,455	Well...its horrible when HD shows up before the dog is one year of age, it is also extremely rare. HD generally takes some time to develop, and you can only "diagnose" it if its a milder case or a developing case after the dog is 2 years old. If you notice issues in your dog before the age of one, you get x-rays just to confirm but its usually pretty noticeable. If you're really worried about HD then I would keep the insurance, my issue with insurance is that its 20-30 bucks a month and you will probably not get your money's worth unless it involves yearly physicals and preventative care. HD is prevalent in this breed, but the majority of cases are when the dog is much much older, usually at an age where a hip replacement is just to prolong the obvious and probably not in the dog's best interest. __________________ Rooney CD RE TC HIC 7/10

12-11-2012, 07:40 AM	#55 (permalink)
JakodaCD OA Moderator Join Date: May 2000 Location: Old Lyme, CT USA Posts: 17,537	what wyominggrandma said^^ A dog just doesnt develop HD (remember elbows are just as important) if they have it, they have it. I would keep the insurance for a year just in case something crops up. I would prelim hips/elbows before your insurance is going to lapse. If nothing shows up, if your comfortable, cancel the insurance, if you think you should continue it, by all means do so. The majority of people (pet owners) never bother to xray their dogs unless something crops up, limping etc..Sometimes as poster above stated w/her experience, you would just never think anything was wrong as there are no clinical symptoms. __________________ Diane Danger Danger vom Kleinen Hain aka Masi "Angel" Jakoda's Bewitchen Sami CD OA OAJ OAC NGC OJC RS-O GS-N JS-O TT HIC CGC "Angel" Steinwald's Four x Four CGC HIC TT Harmonyhill's Hy Jynx NA NAJ NAC NJC RS-N JS-N HIC Jakoda's Jagged Edge

12-11-2012, 09:32 AM	#57 (permalink)
Liesje Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 16,248	You can certainly diagnose HD before 2 years (and you can rule it out too). You cannot get an OFA rating before 2 years but the OFA is not the be-all or end-all of HD diagnostics. It takes time for the arthritis to progress but the dog either has HD or not; borderline dogs would be what is more rare and where you would want to monitor over time for changes but in most cases you can check early. I check my dogs at 6-7 months and so far have not had the ratings differ from the prelim opinion of the vet between 6 months and 2 years. __________________ Liesje & Nikon vom Blauen Horizont / Blue Horizon GSDs

12-11-2012, 10:19 AM	#58 (permalink)
Smithie86 Crowned Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Nashville, TN and Budapest HU Posts: 4,029	We have done the register the litter and puppies on line from the 1st litter we bred. It is simple, fast and the registration goes directly to the new owner. __________________ www.k9imports.com V KK1 Molinari Enzo SCH3,IPO3,VK3,FH(WUSVx3,FCIx4) HOT KK1 Frodo v Biezenhoeve SCH3,IPO3,HPO3(WUSVx3, FCIx3)HOT KK1 Tarnoki-Felvigyazo Quamatz SCH3(HOT), KK1 Griff v Tajgetosz SCH3,IPO3(BHOT)

12-10-2012, 07:31 PM	#54 (permalink)
wyominggrandma Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 1,371	HD, if the dog has it, can be diagnosed at anytime with xrays. A 6 month old puppy can be xrayed and if it has HD,can be diagnosed easily at that time. OFA numbers will only be given at 2 years old, prelims can be given at any age from a puppy on, but will only be posted on the site at 1 year old. I have had OFA do prelims on a 9 month old Sheltie puppy and was diagnosed with both hips having severe HD. This puppy moved like a dream in the show ring, but I was noticing when he moved, he was lowering his head slightly. I decided to xray him, sent the prelims to OFA and they gave me the diagnosis. He had horrible hips. I know another dog that won group after group, fabulous movement, could jump, with no issues and moved like a smooth machine. Did her hips when she hit 2 and she had the worst set of hips I have ever seen........ My first GSD at a year old was fine one day, came out of her crate limping slightly one morning and I took her in for xrays. Didn't even send them in, one hip was subluxated out, one had no hip socket to speak of. She never limped until that day. Did FHO on both hips. What I am trying to say is HD under a year old os not so rare at all. Many many cases of it are dignosed everyday, that is why OFA suggests prelims if you have a concern. A severe case can show up as early as 5 or 6 months. Don't assume that if your dog doesn't have HD at a year, it will never have it. But, don't assume that a dog under a year old won't have it either.

12-11-2012, 09:16 AM	#56 (permalink)
cliffson1 Crowned Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 3,872	HD before 1year being rare is not accurate....actually it is the opposite....by one year of age you know what the dog will be hipswise in over 90% of the time. That's why Germany certifies hips at a year of age.....because you know what you have in a vast majority of cases.

12-11-2012, 10:21 AM	#59 (permalink)
gagsd Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: georgia Posts: 3,870	Is it possible this puppy was in lieu of a stud fee? That would explain why the mother was not on premises and the papers were not yet available. __________________ ----Mary I love my dogs..... But I am a dog owner, not a pet parent. Go Train The Dog!

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