Big red flags on the Breeder we got our dog from?

[Chicagocanine]

My GSD's original owner had a lot of problems getting her papers from her breeder. She was from good lines and her parents were titled, etc...
But her breeder didn't send the papers for a long time and they had to keep pushing, finally when the breeder sent them, they were Canadian not AKC and were for the wrong dog-- they belonged to one of her litter mates.
Apparently some other people had similar issues with her breeder also.

[lhczth]

I now register all of the pups for my puppy people. Once I know which pup is going where, they pick a name and then I have been paid for the puppy, I go on line and register the pup in their name. The papers are sent to them directly. Don't think it takes much more than a week or so.

[SchutzenWoof]

Originally Posted by jocoyn

What I would do is make sure you take the puppy to the vet for an examination. Never took a pup back to a breeder for shots before.

I have gotten papers different ways, sometimes with the name of the puppy filed in for me to send in, others with it blank.....with Beau, she had already registered him and it was just transfer paperwork even though he was about 10 weeks old. So I gather it is all over the place how it winds up.

Hi,

Yes, we have a great vet. He went the very next day. On some meds now for the whole diarrhea thing, but other than a bit underweight, the vet says he is healthy. They did fecal tests and everything. He's still got a bit of diarrhea, but it seems to be getting a little better. Gave us 3 kinds of meds, and we're feeding him prescription food for the last 5 days so far.

Thanks for all the input folks.

[Chicagocanine]

Oh also wanted to add, in my dog's case her breeder named the puppies so it wasn't even an issue of having to wait for that, she was a "b" litter so all the puppies had "b" names given by the breeder.

[selzer]

Boy this will get people going, but it is kind of funny.

I wonder what red flags people were putting up on me. This year I bred a couple of females about 9 weeks apart. Ok, exactly nine weeks apart. So on the day my pups from litter 1 were eight weeks old, I was delivering puppies for litter 2.

I had gotten the house cleaned, mostly, but I had two sets of people coming over that day, and my girl decided she needed to go and have her puppies NOW!

Ok, I admit, I called Mom and had her send Dad over. After having him vacuum the living room, I set him the task of putting together the eight little booklets with all my propaganda in them. I gave him one of my own dog's books to use as an example and ran into help the girl spit out another puppy.

The phone is ringing off the hook, and I am really thinking I should just not let the people come over to look at the puppies today, but the first lady was a breeder, and she understood what was going, on, and was perfectly ok with coming out. I had been up all night, and just didn't have it in me to argue. So I got the eight week old pups out front, and while she checked them out, I kept running back in to assist my girl to have another puppy. She was on number nine by the time the lady left were her puppy, her food, and her little booklet.

After about an hour she calls me. I think it is my sister, and so I say, nine, 5 boys, 4 girls. She said something like, that's great, but I have a question. So I got it that she was not my sister. She asked me who the father actually was, I had one sire listed on the AKC application, and the pedigree of another sire.

Uhg! Oh no!!! I rushed into the other room to figure out if I screwed up the AKC papers. I didn't, I just copied the first sire I used with Jenna's papers, instead of the new sire's papers. So back in to check on the other girl, and then over to the neighbors to ask if they had a copier, and I was able to fix all the booklets, and send the proper copy to the owner of the first pup.

Normally, papers go with the puppy. I have withheld papers when giving a payment plan, but someone told me the AKC isn't too fond of that. Currently I need to send one person papers, I delivered a puppy to her on trial, and haven't sent the papers to her yet. Bummer. I keep forgetting. I have been in contact with her several times though. I just need to send them out.

My guess is the breeder is worried that you won't follow through with the second set of shots. It sounds like she provides the second set. Not sure. I know that if for some reason you do not want to keep the puppy, if they fill the papers out there and then, they will have to go and fill out an application for a duplicate certificate -- did that this year. Not a huge deal, but it took a couple of weeks to come through. They may be trying to avoid that, or ensuring your check clears. Hard to say. Also very possible that they did not register the litter until later.

[Chicagocanine]

Oh yeah also wanted to add, despite them asking they never did get the dog's actual papers...IIRC after a while, the breeder eventually refused to even respond to her. This all was over several years (it took I think a year before she got the first incorrect papers).

[SchutzenWoof]

Originally Posted by selzer

Boy this will get people going, but it is kind of funny.

I wonder what red flags people were putting up on me. This year I bred a couple of females about 9 weeks apart. Ok, exactly nine weeks apart. So on the day my pups from litter 1 were eight weeks old, I was delivering puppies for litter 2.

I had gotten the house cleaned, mostly, but I had two sets of people coming over that day, and my girl decided she needed to go and have her puppies NOW!

Ok, I admit, I called Mom and had her send Dad over. After having him vacuum the living room, I set him the task of putting together the eight little booklets with all my propaganda in them. I gave him one of my own dog's books to use as an example and ran into help the girl spit out another puppy.

The phone is ringing off the hook, and I am really thinking I should just not let the people come over to look at the puppies today, but the first lady was a breeder, and she understood what was going, on, and was perfectly ok with coming out. I had been up all night, and just didn't have it in me to argue. So I got the eight week old pups out front, and while she checked them out, I kept running back in to assist my girl to have another puppy. She was on number nine by the time the lady left were her puppy, her food, and her little booklet.

After about an hour she calls me. I think it is my sister, and so I say, nine, 5 boys, 4 girls. She said something like, that's great, but I have a question. So I got it that she was not my sister. She asked me who the father actually was, I had one sire listed on the AKC application, and the pedigree of another sire.

Uhg! Oh no!!! I rushed into the other room to figure out if I screwed up the AKC papers. I didn't, I just copied the first sire I used with Jenna's papers, instead of the new sire's papers. So back in to check on the other girl, and then over to the neighbors to ask if they had a copier, and I was able to fix all the booklets, and send the proper copy to the owner of the first pup.

Normally, papers go with the puppy. I have withheld papers when giving a payment plan, but someone told me the AKC isn't too fond of that. Currently I need to send one person papers, I delivered a puppy to her on trial, and haven't sent the papers to her yet. Bummer. I keep forgetting. I have been in contact with her several times though. I just need to send them out.

My guess is the breeder is worried that you won't follow through with the second set of shots. It sounds like she provides the second set. Not sure. I know that if for some reason you do not want to keep the puppy, if they fill the papers out there and then, they will have to go and fill out an application for a duplicate certificate -- did that this year. Not a huge deal, but it took a couple of weeks to come through. They may be trying to avoid that, or ensuring your check clears. Hard to say. Also very possible that they did not register the litter until later.

Thanks for the lengthy reply. Since I have the vet, he'll be giving the second round of shots and the rest for that matter. She was paid in full and has all the money now. The puppy was pretty underweight and he's now on a lot of meds to get that all sorted. Still has diarrhea. There's a lot going on in his little life right now. 8 weeks old. Introduced to a new home, lots of new people, two kitties that aren't necessarily fond of him yet, three kinds of medications, and prescription dog food. If I hadn't taken him to the vet and had the tests, etc I'd be a little more worried. He's very active, playing, very well mannered. Learning like a rock star. Already pretty much crate trained. Sits by the door to go out to pee when he's out of the crate. Sits for his dinner before being fed.

Thank you all so much for your replies.

[FrankieC]

Originally Posted by lhczth

I now register all of the pups for my puppy people. Once I know which pup is going where, they pick a name and then I have been paid for the puppy, I go on line and register the pup in their name. The papers are sent to them directly. Don't think it takes much more than a week or so.

This was what our breeder did and the service was appreciated.

[FlyAway]

There are legitimate reasons for not getting papers with a puppy, but there are so many scammers out there that the AKC put a warning on their website.

"Be wary of excuses such as "AKC hasn't sent the papers yet." The AKC Dog Registration Form should be available at the time you pick up your puppy. If not, wait until the breeder receives it before you pay for and take home the pup. "

American Kennel Club - Puppy Buyers Beware

[martemchik]

To me, not getting the papers would be a huge red flag unless I knew the breeder personally and saw them on a regular basis, and even then...questionable. If I'm paying $1000+ for a puppy, that paperwork better be filed and in my hands the day I give any kind of payment (barring some huge misunderstanding or life event). From conception, to whelping, to releasing the puppies is about a 4 month period and sorry if the breeder can't find 30 minutes in that 4 months to fill out some paperwork, I wouldn't even consider the puppy. Also really weird that the dam wasn't on site and you couldn't see her. I know some people like to work their dogs and might have them in trials or whatever, but I have a hard time believing a breeder couldn't wait to show/trial a female that just had puppies 8 weeks ago (I can guarantee that dog isn't in breed ring condition).

Does your contract state that the dog comes with AKC (or another club) registration? Do you have copies of the dam's/sire's AKC pedigrees (not all breeders provide this but its nice)? If you do have that much contact with the breeder, I wouldn't be worried quite yet. But if they end up going silent one day, I wouldn't hold my breath for the registration.