breeder red flag?

Fephie · 12-05-2012, 12:43 PM

This is my first time dealing with a breeder and I need to know if this is normal. This is partially venting some frustration (raging hormonal pregnant woman here!) but Im concerned that maybe we should look at a new breeder.
About two months ago I put a $200 deposit on a puppy for an upcoming litter. The litter was due to be born today. Last night I get a message from them saying the dog wasn't actually pregnant. What?! Is this common? They don't do any sort of confirmation of pregnancy before they take people's money and promise them a dog? I don't understand how they could not know until the day before she was due.
Now they've offered us an import puppy from Germany for an extra $600. I don't think I can justify the extra cost. My kids are going to be heartbroken

I don't know what to do. Im probably over reacting, and maybe this happens all the time. Would you pay the extra money if it was in your budget, or would walk away and ask for your deposit back?

PatchonGSD · 12-05-2012, 12:48 PM

From one hormonal pregnant lady to another, there is no excuse for this breeder not notifying you that the pregnancy didnt take until the night before the due date. That is shady-at best its inconsiderate-and I'd get my money back (if you can) and go elsewhere. There is no way I'd give that person more money for another puppy.

FrankieC · 12-05-2012, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatchonGSD

From one hormonal pregnant lady to another, there is no excuse for this breeder not notifying you that the pregnancy didnt take until the night before the due date. That is shady-at best its inconsiderate-and I'd get my money back (if you can) and go elsewhere. There is no way I'd give that person more money for another puppy.

Agree 100%.. and I am not a hormonal pregnant lady

That's not cool at all.

**gagsd** · 12-05-2012, 12:55 PM

It is possible the dog was pregnant at 3 weeks, which is when some breeders do ultrasounds, but then the pregnancy terminated/resorbed/aborted.
Many breeders do not do xrays later and there is no "easy" pregnancy test as there is for people (although of course there are tests).
Some dogs look pregnant when they are not. Some dogs do not look pregnant when they are.

Any way you look at it as the potential puppy buyer.... it is very disheartening. Understandable for sure.

IMO, deposits put on litters that do not produce a puppy for a buyer, should be refunded.

N Smith · 12-05-2012, 12:56 PM

There are a few possibilities, and it is not unusual for breeders to take deposits before a breeding has taken place. They will usually allow you to transfer it to a new litter, or get a refund, if no puppies are produced.

With most dogs you can tell they are pregnant by the time the 4th or 5th week comes around, and you will know for sure by then, even without an ultrasound. However, on more than one occasion, I have had breeder friends tell me their dog didn't take, and then the dog goes into labour and voila, puppies! Just the dog wasn't showing.

I have had on one occasion a breeder friend think that the dog WAS pregnant right up until the 6th week, then all of a sudden all of the outward signs dissappeared...Maybe there were puppies and she lost them? A little late, but you never know? Maybe she had a very convincing false pregnancy? You could definitely feel little "balls" in there...

If it was me, I would look at the other litter, are they even dogs from lines that I want? If not, ask for a refund and find another breeder. If so, ask to speak to the actual breeder of the import puppy, and then make your decision.

Your kids will absolutely be heartbroken, but explain everything and how you want to make sure you get them the best friend that you can, and sometimes it takes more time. Rushing this could end badly, if you just a get a puppy to get a puppy...get the puppy that has the best chance of being a forever member of your family.

**JeanKBBMMMAAN** · 12-05-2012, 01:00 PM

Do they do Brucellosis testing on stud and mom?

It may be a sign that a newborn, other kids, and a German Shepherd puppy could be a bit...overwhelming?!?

**Liesje** · 12-05-2012, 01:02 PM

It has happened to me, though I didn't put a deposit down. It's not all that rare for the breedings to not take. Some breeders are more communicative than others. For me this is not necessarily a red flag though I would expect a deposit to be refunded since there are no puppies. The deposit is there to protect the breeder from people backing out but they can't take money for a dog that doesn't exist.

VanBuren shepherds · 12-05-2012, 01:09 PM

In some cases there is false pregnancies and also where the puppies are reabsorbed. The only way to make sure is an ultrasound. It's sad that this occurred. The deposit should definitely be refunded or go to another litter if possible.
I would find out why it took so long to let you know. Then maybe you will be able to make a more educated decision on where to go from here.

Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App

Fephie · 12-05-2012, 01:09 PM

I have no doubt that I will be able to get my deposit back. I also have the option of waiting for the next litter due in January. I just dont know if I should wait again with this guy or move on to another breeder. I felt really confident that made the right choice until now. He came highly recommended, very experienced...

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeanKBBMMMAAN

Do they do Brucellosis testing on stud and mom?

It may be a sign that a newborn, other kids, and a German Shepherd puppy could be a bit...overwhelming?!?

Well, not that it matters but Im actually pregnant as a surrogate mother for a friend. So it will just be puppy and the kids

sit,stay · 12-05-2012, 01:12 PM

I had something very similar happen to me. I put a $750 deposit down on a litter that never happened due to false pregnancy. Deposit was nonrefundable.

Breeder offered to sell me a pup from another litter, for an additional $1,000 on the purchase price. I had no problem transferring my deposit to another litter, but we had contracted at a specified purchase price ($1,500, not $2,500) and I wanted the breeder to honor that price. I was willing to honor the part of the contract that said the deposit was nonrefundable, I felt the whole contract should have been honored.

It took more than a year to get a puppy from the breeder. In hindsight I should have walked away and chalked it up to experience. But I didn't, and I soon learned that there were other issues I had to contend with in dealing with this breeder.

False pregnancy happens. And many breeders take deposits on unborn litters. But I think you can tell a lot about a breeder's ethics by how easily you can reach a resolution regarding transferring the deposit. The contract was for a specific price, that contract should be honored. Otherwise void the whole thing and return the deposit money.
Sheilah

12-05-2012, 12:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
Fephie New Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 22	breeder red flag? This is my first time dealing with a breeder and I need to know if this is normal. This is partially venting some frustration (raging hormonal pregnant woman here!) but Im concerned that maybe we should look at a new breeder. About two months ago I put a $200 deposit on a puppy for an upcoming litter. The litter was due to be born today. Last night I get a message from them saying the dog wasn't actually pregnant. What?! Is this common? They don't do any sort of confirmation of pregnancy before they take people's money and promise them a dog? I don't understand how they could not know until the day before she was due. Now they've offered us an import puppy from Germany for an extra $600. I don't think I can justify the extra cost. My kids are going to be heartbroken I don't know what to do. Im probably over reacting, and maybe this happens all the time. Would you pay the extra money if it was in your budget, or would walk away and ask for your deposit back?

12-05-2012, 12:48 PM	#2 (permalink)
PatchonGSD Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,514	From one hormonal pregnant lady to another, there is no excuse for this breeder not notifying you that the pregnancy didnt take until the night before the due date. That is shady-at best its inconsiderate-and I'd get my money back (if you can) and go elsewhere. There is no way I'd give that person more money for another puppy. __________________ Balen Patchon Adopted 8-28-12 http://www.dogster.com/dogs/1275860 Failure is success, if you learn from it.

12-05-2012, 12:55 PM	#4 (permalink)
gagsd Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: georgia Posts: 3,880	It is possible the dog was pregnant at 3 weeks, which is when some breeders do ultrasounds, but then the pregnancy terminated/resorbed/aborted. Many breeders do not do xrays later and there is no "easy" pregnancy test as there is for people (although of course there are tests). Some dogs look pregnant when they are not. Some dogs do not look pregnant when they are. Any way you look at it as the potential puppy buyer.... it is very disheartening. Understandable for sure. IMO, deposits put on litters that do not produce a puppy for a buyer, should be refunded. __________________ ----Mary I love my dogs..... But I am a dog owner, not a pet parent. Go Train The Dog!

12-05-2012, 01:00 PM	#6 (permalink)
JeanKBBMMMAAN The Rescues Rule Administrator Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 22,803	Do they do Brucellosis testing on stud and mom? It may be a sign that a newborn, other kids, and a German Shepherd puppy could be a bit...overwhelming?!? __________________ Help IMOM help Pets www.imom.org Help a rescue: wish some big dogs a Happy Howliday! www.bigdogsbighearts.blogspot.com Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight. Albert Schweitzer

12-05-2012, 01:02 PM	#7 (permalink)
Liesje Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 16,278	It has happened to me, though I didn't put a deposit down. It's not all that rare for the breedings to not take. Some breeders are more communicative than others. For me this is not necessarily a red flag though I would expect a deposit to be refunded since there are no puppies. The deposit is there to protect the breeder from people backing out but they can't take money for a dog that doesn't exist. __________________ Liesje & the K9s Nikon (GSD) U-CH SG Alta-Tollhaus Bono SchH1 KKL T1 FO PA TF-III FDCh-S CL1-R UJJ U-CA HIT TT CGC Coke (All-American) VPC's Coca-Cola CGC, couch warmer extraordinaire Indy (All-American) Blue Horizon's Indigo Girl, flyball star in training Rainbow Bridge Kenya (GSD) U-CH Alta-Tollhaus-Krieger Lamb Chop CL1-R CL1-F RA HIT TDI TT CGC vom Blauen Horizont / Blue Horizon GSDs

12-05-2012, 12:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
N Smith Master Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Whitehorse, Yukon Posts: 535	There are a few possibilities, and it is not unusual for breeders to take deposits before a breeding has taken place. They will usually allow you to transfer it to a new litter, or get a refund, if no puppies are produced. With most dogs you can tell they are pregnant by the time the 4th or 5th week comes around, and you will know for sure by then, even without an ultrasound. However, on more than one occasion, I have had breeder friends tell me their dog didn't take, and then the dog goes into labour and voila, puppies! Just the dog wasn't showing. I have had on one occasion a breeder friend think that the dog WAS pregnant right up until the 6th week, then all of a sudden all of the outward signs dissappeared...Maybe there were puppies and she lost them? A little late, but you never know? Maybe she had a very convincing false pregnancy? You could definitely feel little "balls" in there... If it was me, I would look at the other litter, are they even dogs from lines that I want? If not, ask for a refund and find another breeder. If so, ask to speak to the actual breeder of the import puppy, and then make your decision. Your kids will absolutely be heartbroken, but explain everything and how you want to make sure you get them the best friend that you can, and sometimes it takes more time. Rushing this could end badly, if you just a get a puppy to get a puppy...get the puppy that has the best chance of being a forever member of your family.

12-05-2012, 01:09 PM	#8 (permalink)
VanBuren shepherds Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Abilene, TX Posts: 89	In some cases there is false pregnancies and also where the puppies are reabsorbed. The only way to make sure is an ultrasound. It's sad that this occurred. The deposit should definitely be refunded or go to another litter if possible. I would find out why it took so long to let you know. Then maybe you will be able to make a more educated decision on where to go from here. Sent from my iPhone using Petguide.com Free App __________________ www.TexasWorkingShepherds.com www.peacefulsolution.org

12-05-2012, 01:12 PM	#10 (permalink)
sit,stay Knighted Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,657	I had something very similar happen to me. I put a $750 deposit down on a litter that never happened due to false pregnancy. Deposit was nonrefundable. Breeder offered to sell me a pup from another litter, for an additional $1,000 on the purchase price. I had no problem transferring my deposit to another litter, but we had contracted at a specified purchase price ($1,500, not $2,500) and I wanted the breeder to honor that price. I was willing to honor the part of the contract that said the deposit was nonrefundable, I felt the whole contract should have been honored. It took more than a year to get a puppy from the breeder. In hindsight I should have walked away and chalked it up to experience. But I didn't, and I soon learned that there were other issues I had to contend with in dealing with this breeder. False pregnancy happens. And many breeders take deposits on unborn litters. But I think you can tell a lot about a breeder's ethics by how easily you can reach a resolution regarding transferring the deposit. The contract was for a specific price, that contract should be honored. Otherwise void the whole thing and return the deposit money. Sheilah

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